CAPTIONING JULY 16, 2009 BOCC WORKSHOP BUDGET ***This is not an official, verbatim transcript of the ***following meeting. It should be used for informational ***purposes only. This document has not been edited; ***therefore, there may be additions, deletions, or words ***that did not translate. >>KEN HAGAN: GOOD AFTERNOON, AND WELCOME TO THE JULY 16th BUDGET WORKSHOP. WE HAVE A NUMBER OF ISSUES AND DEPARTMENTS TO REVIEW THIS AFTERNOON. PRIOR TO INTRODUCTION BY THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, COMMISSIONER BECKNER HAD ASKED FOR A MOMENT OF PERSONAL PRIVILEGE. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. I KNOW LAST -- YESTERDAY WE DID A LOT OF WORK, AND IT WAS AN EXHAUSTING DAY, AND AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO SPEND MUCH TIME OR BELABOR THIS POINT HERE, BUT I JUST WANT TO JUST BRIEFLY DISCUSS -- GO BACK TO THE INSURANCE ISSUE FOR JUST A MOMENT TO DISCUSS THE CONSULTANTS THAT RISK MANAGEMENT WAS LOOKING AT USING TO -- AROUND THE STATE CONTRACTS. I'VE REVIEWED THE LIST THAT MS. SWANSON TENDS TO RELY ON TO SELECT A CONSULTANT, AND THE -- THE MEMBERS THAT WERE PROVIDED -- YOU-ALL WERE PROVIDED THIS LIST -- A COUPLE THINGS. I DON'T HAVE A GREAT LEVEL OF COMFORT AS FAR AS KNOWING OTHER THAN AON SOME OF THESE PEOPLE HERE, AND ALSO, WHEN I PULLED UP THE PRICING LIST AS FAR AS THE HOURLY RATES FOR THESE CONSULTANTS, IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, I THINK THESE RATES TEND TO BE A LITTLE BIT HIGH. WHEN I DID SOME ADDITIONAL RESEARCH, IT TURNS OUT THAT THE COMPANY THAT I WAS -- ONE OF THE COMPANIES THAT I WAS LOOKING AT, THE ARTHUR J. GALLAGHER RISK MANAGEMENT COMPANY, HAS ALREADY A COMPETITIVELY BIDDED CONTRACT WITH OUR COUNTY, THE CITY OF TAMPA, AS WELL AS THE AVIATION AUTHORITY FOR CONSULTING SERVICES REGARDING THE EMPLOYEE BENEFIT PLANS. WHAT I WOULD JUST LIKE TO DO IS JUST MAKE A SIMPLE MOTION THAT BEFORE STAFF ENGAGES IN A CONTRACT WITH ONE OF THE STATE PROVIDERS THAT WE HAVE THEM INVESTIGATE THE HOURLY RATE OF THE ARTHUR J. GALLAGHER RISK MANAGEMENT COMPANY AS WELL AS THEIR AVAILABILITY AND THEIR QUALIFICATIONS AND THEN REPORT BACK TO THE BOARD AS SOON AS POSSIBLY. HOPEFULLY WE CAN PERHAPS TAKE THIS UP REAL QUICKLY AT OUR LAND USE MEETING ON TUESDAY, JULY 21st, AND AGAIN, UNTIL WE GET THAT INFORMATION BACK, THEN, YOU KNOW, I WOULD ALSO ASK STAFF TO SUSPEND THEIR ENTERING INTO ANY CONTRACTS WITH ONE OF THE STATE CONSULTANTS. I JUST FEEL, BOARD MEMBERS, THAT WE NEED TO DO THE DUE DILIGENCE HERE. WE'RE IN TOUGH ECONOMIC TIMES. IF WE CAN SAVE A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY AND WE ALREADY HAVE SOMEBODY THAT'S ALREADY BEEN APPROVED BY THE COUNTY AND WE'RE ENGAGING IN A CONTRACT ALREADY, WE HAVE THAT RELATIONSHIP, WE KEEP IT LOCAL, AND I JUST THINK THAT WE NEED TO TAKE A COUPLE MORE DAYS TO REALLY LOOK AT THIS AGAIN TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE MAKING A WISE DECISION HERE. SO THAT WOULD BE MY MOTION, AND I WOULD HOPE THAT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO SUPPORT ME ON THIS. >>KEN HAGAN: ERIC, WOULD YOU OR THE APPROPRIATE STAFFPERSON LIKE TO ADDRESS COMMISSIONER BECKNER'S COMMENTS? >>ERIC JOHNSON: WELL, I THINK THAT'S FINE. IF WE'VE PREVIOUSLY USED THEM, WE'LL CERTAINLY LOOK AT THAT AND GET BACK TO THE BOARD ON TUESDAY AT YOUR LAND USE MEETING. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: I'LL SECOND IT. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: COMMISSIONER BECKNER, LET ME SAY WE ONLY HAVE ONE -- THREE ONE-MONTH EXTENSIONS, AND NOW WE'RE DOING THIS AND WE'RE -- WE'RE FOCUSING ON ONE PERSON. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WOULD ACCEPT THIS TO THE MOTION OR WHATEVER, BUT TO AT LEAST GIVE STAFF SOME FLEXIBILITY THAT -- I KNOW LAST -- WE HAD A YEAR ON THE -- THE CONTINUATION ON THE AGENDA. WE HAD THREE MONTHS' CONTINUATION ON THE AGENDA. THAT WE WOULD ALLOW THEM TO GO UP TO SIX. I DON'T WANT TO LOOK LIKE WE'RE GOING TO ONE PERSON. I LIKE THE RFP PROCESS SOME, EVEN IF IT'S SEVERAL. IF WE GO TO ONE, IT LOOKS LIKE WE OR YOU OR HIM PICKED IT. I LIKE OPEN FAIRNESS OF PUTTING IT OUT TO FIND THE RIGHT PERSON. THAT WAS MY CONCERN ABOUT THE STATE CONTRACT WAS THAT, ALL DUE RESPECT, THE STAFF WHICH SELECTED CIGNA WAS PICKING THE PERSON THAT WAS GOING TO DO THAT. NOW IT'S LIKE WE MAY BE PICKING THE PERSON TO -- TO DO THAT. I WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IF IT WAS AN OPEN PROCESS THAT WE PUT IT OUT AND IT GOT RFP'D THAT WAY AND WE TOOK UP TO SIX MONTHS TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE SYSTEM. THAT WOULD BE MY DRUTHERS, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WOULD AMEND THAT, GIVING THEM THE FLEXIBILITY TO RFP IT AND BRING BACK A -- THAT'S HOW I FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE, WITH THE OPEN -- A TRUE OPEN PROCESS INSTEAD OF SELECTING AN INDIVIDUAL GROUP. >>KEVIN BECKNER: AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE, ON THE EXTENSIONS FOR OUR CONTRACTS -- BECAUSE I KNOW THAT WAS PART OF ONE OF THE ISSUES -- WE WOULD BE ABLE TO -- MS. LEE, YOU MIGHT WANT TO BE ABLE TO HELP ME OUT ON THIS. SOME OF THE CONCERNS I KNOW THAT WE HAD GOING TOO FAR OUT WAS AROUND -- IT WAS A BUDGETARY ISSUE AS WELL. IS THAT RIGHT? >>RENEE LEE: COMMISSIONER, I THINK IT WAS A BUDGETARY ISSUE AS WELL AS A PRICING ISSUE WITH THE RFPs. STAFF COULD PROBABLY GO BACK TO THE PROPOSERS AND ASK THEM TO HOLD THEIR PRICES FOR THE SIX MONTHS. I KNOW THAT THEY ARE COMMITTED TO THE THREE MONTHS PROBABLY, BUT THEY COULD VOLUNTARILY EXTEND THAT COURTESY TO THE COUNTY IF -- POSSIBLY, BUT -- >>PAT BEAN: [INAUDIBLE] >>RENEE LEE: YEAH. >>CHRISTINA SWANSON: GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. CHRISTINA SWANSON, HUMAN RESOURCES. THE PROPOSERS HAVE NOT COMMITTED TO HOLD THEIR PRICES BEYOND THE OCTOBER 1st DATE. AS YOU'RE AWARE, HEALTH CARE COSTS INCREASE CONSTANTLY, AND THEY HAVE TO PROJECT THESE COSTS OUT FOR TWO YEARS INTO THE FUTURE, SO WE HAVE NO COMMITMENT FROM EITHER VENDOR TO HOLD THEIR PRICES, AND IN FACT, IF WE PUT IT OUT FOR A BEST AND FINAL, WHICH IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ARE GOING TO DO, IT IS POSSIBLE THEY COULD COME BACK AND CHANGE RATES. >>JIM NORMAN: THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU SAID. SHE SAID YOU WOULD ASK THEM TO DO THAT, NOT THAT THEY HAVE COMMITTED TO DO IT. >>CHRISTINA SWANSON: WE HAVE NOT ASKED THEM THAT YET. >>RENEE LEE: SHE CAN ASK THEM -- >>JIM NORMAN: THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID, TO ASK THEM. THAT THEY HADN'T COMMITTED BUT ASK THEM. >>CHRISTINA SWANSON: OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE IN THE RFP PROCESS, THERE'S NO COMMITMENT TO HOLD THE PRICES BEYOND WHAT THEY ARE. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: UNLESS I'M MISTAKEN, I THOUGHT YESTERDAY WE HAD ONE REPRESENTATIVE HERE THAT SAID HE HAD WENT BACK AND TALKED TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE AND SAID THEY COMMITTED TO HOLDING UP TO A YEAR FOR THE SAME PRICES IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY. HE SAID THAT THEY HAD COMMITTED HOLDING IT FOR UP TO A YEAR. >>RENEE LEE: THEIR PRICES BUT NOT OURS. >>ERIC JOHNSON: COMMISSIONER, THAT'S UNDER OUR SELF-FUNDED PROGRAM, THEIR ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS TO US. OUR CLAIMS EXPERIENCE WILL DRIVE OUR COSTS TO SELF-INSURE UP EFFECTIVE OCTOBER 1. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REPRICE OUR PROGRAM IF WE CONTINUE PAST THE OCTOBER 1 DATE THAT WE HAD ANTICIPATED HAVING A VENDOR, WHICHEVER VENDOR IT WAS, TAKE OVER, WHETHER THEY -- WHETHER WE CONTINUE THE SELF-FUNDED PROGRAM OR WE WENT TO THE FULLY INSURED, BUT HUMANA'S REPRESENTATIVE WAS REFERRING TO THEIR ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS, WHICH IS ABOUT 5% OF THE COST OF THE PROGRAM. THE 95% COST, WHICH IS CLAIMS, THOSE COSTS ARE GOING UP. WE ARE LOOKING AT REPRICING WHAT THE BENEFITS COSTS WILL BE AND WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TO START CHARGING. ACTUALLY, WE START CHARGING IN AUGUST FOR THE PROGRAM THAT IS IN EFFECT OCTOBER 1, SO WE'LL BE GETTING BACK TO YOU WITH THOSE -- THOSE COST INCREASES ASSUMING THAT FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE, WE WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE A SELF-FUNDED PROGRAM WHERE WE'LL INCUR THE RISK, AND WE'LL RUN OUR COSTS AS WELL AS THE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS OF CONTINUING ON A MONTH-TO-MONTH BASIS WITH HUMANA. >>KEVIN WHITE: ALL RIGHT. FOR ARGUMENT'S SAKE, HELP ME OUT HERE. WHAT WOULD BE OUR DETRIMENT TO HOLD THE LINE AT WHAT WE HAVE NOW -- WE'RE SELF-FUNDED NOW -- AND -- AND I STRONGLY COMMEND MS. SWANSON FOR EVERYTHING THAT SHE'S DONE. I KNOW SHE'S DONE A YEOMAN'S JOB AT THIS, BUT SINCE WE'VE - - SINCE SOME OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE BROUGHT UP SOME OF THE OTHER ISSUES CONCERNED, WHAT WOULD BE -- AND EITHER YOU, ERIC, OR CHRISTINA -- TO HOLD THE LINE HERE AND SAY, WELL, NOW THAT ALL THESE OTHER ISSUES HAVE COME UP, NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN RFP PROCESS, TO TAKE OUR TIME AND ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS, EXTEND THE CONTRACT WITH HUMANA FOR A YEAR, AND SAY EVERYBODY KNOW -- ALL OF OUR COUNTY EMPLOYEES KNOW WHO THEIR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER IS, THEY'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT, THEY KNOW THEIR PHYSICIANS, THEIR FORMULARIES, EVERYTHING ELSE IS EXACTLY THE SAME NOW, AND THEN WE CAN DO THE RFP PROCESS, TAKE OUR TIME, FIND THE APPROPRIATE PEOPLE THAT IF -- THAT OUR STATE CONTRACTS ARE WITH AND EVERYBODY ELSE AND SAY -- AND THEN GET ALL THE INFORMATION TO MAKE AN EDUCATED NOT A RUSHED DECISION, AND WE'D HAVE -- WE'D HAVE 12 MONTHS IN WHICH TO DO THAT, GET EVERYTHING BACK TOGETHER, AND IF WE -- IF WE'RE COMING BACK WITH OUR THIRD AND FOURTH BEST AND FINAL, IT GIVES EVERYBODY THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARPEN THEIR PENCIL TO THE MAXIMUM AND HOPEFULLY GAIN THE BEST -- >>ERIC JOHNSON: SURE. WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT. WE'RE PREPARED TO DO THAT. WE'LL HAVE TO RAISE PREMIUMS OCTOBER 1. WE CAN RAISE THEM FOR EMPLOYEES OR WE CAN RAISE THEM FOR THE COUNTY OR WE CAN SPLIT IT, BUT WE CAN'T RUN THE PROGRAM AT THE CURRENT PREMIUMS BEING SPLIT BETWEEN THE COUNTY EMPLOYEES, SO THERE WILL BE A PREMIUM INCREASE. >>KEVIN WHITE: WELL, THAT I UNDERSTAND, BUT, I MEAN, WHAT WOULD BE THE RISK TO US WITH OUR $14 MILLION IN RESERVES IN THAT FUND? I MEAN -- >>ERIC JOHNSON: YOU'LL HAVE TO KEEP THE RESERVES, SO WE'LL HAVE TO RAISE -- YOU WON'T BE USING THE RESERVES TO SUBSIDIZE IF WE'RE STILL RUNNING THE PROGRAM. WE'LL BE TESTED FOR THE ADEQUACY OF RESERVES AS OF -- >>CHRISTINA SWANSON: AS OF THE END OF THIS PLAN YEAR, WE MUST FILE WITH THE STATE BY DECEMBER 31st. >>ERIC JOHNSON: SO WE'LL HAVE TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE ADEQUATE RESERVES IN PLACE AT DECEMBER 31st, AND TO HAVE THAT, WE WILL HAVE TO RAISE -- BASED ON OUR CURRENT COST, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RAISE THE PREMIUMS, AND THE BOARD CAN DECIDE -- WE HAD NOT PLANNED TO HAVE THE COUNTY PICK UP ANY OF THAT COST, BUT HOWEVER THE BOARD WOULD LIKE TO DO IT. WE CAN EXTEND THE RELATIONSHIP. WE CAN REMAIN SELF-FUNDED, BUT IF WE INSURE, WE HAVE TO HAVE THE ADEQUATE FUNDS IN PLACE, HOWEVER THEY'RE COLLECTED, WHETHER IT'S COLLECTED FROM US, THE COUNTY, FROM EMPLOYEES, OR A SPLIT, AS I SAID, TO MEET THE COST OF THE PROGRAM. >>KEVIN WHITE: THE ONLY REASON I'M REALLY HESITANT ABOUT JUST RUSHING TO JUDGMENT, I MEAN, AS OF YESTERDAY, AFTER OUR MEETING, AFTER OUR LONG, ARDUOUS MEETING, AND WALKING AROUND THE COUNTY CENTER A LITTLE BIT YESTERDAY AND THEN BETWEEN EPC MEETING AND NOW, IT IS NOT -- I HAVEN'T BEEN INUNDATED, BUT I'VE HAD SEVERAL COUNTY EMPLOYEES SAY THEY'RE HAPPY WITH HUMANA AND THEY'RE HAPPY WITH THE LEVEL OF SERVICE THEY'RE BEING PROVIDED WITH NOW, AND IF THERE'S A SMALL INCREASE -- YOU KNOW, NOBODY WANTS TO PAY ANY MORE, BUT, YOU KNOW, SO BE IT. THEY'RE HAPPY WITH THE PROVIDERS THEY HAVE NOW. I HAVEN'T HEARD MUCH ON THE OTHER SIDE, AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE'VE -- AND I ENCOURAGED YESTERDAY EVEN DURING OUR MEETING FOR COUNTY EMPLOYEES TO START, YOU KNOW, E-MAILING THEIR COMMISSIONERS AND, YOU KNOW, LETTING THEM KNOW THEIR PREFERENCE. >>KEN HAGAN: ALL RIGHT. WE NEED TO GET MOVING ON THIS. THIS WAS NOT ON THE AGENDA. WE'VE GOT AN UNBELIEVABLY LONG AGENDA TODAY AND OTHER ITEMS TO TAKE UP INCLUDING CONSENT AGENDA ITEM YESTERDAY. WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION YESTERDAY. I SUGGEST YOU WANT TO HAVE ANOTHER LENGTHY DISCUSSION, LET'S AGENDA IT FOR THE LAND USE MEETING, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO SUPPORT ANYTHING THAT'S GOING TO POTENTIALLY DELAY A DECISION AFTER OCTOBER 1. WE'RE SUBJECTING THE EMPLOYEES AND RETIREES TO AN UNBELIEVABLE COST INCREASE. WE DEBATED THIS YESTERDAY, SO WHY ARE WE HAVING THE DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW? I DON'T LIKE CHERRY-PICKING A COMPANY TO HAVE THEM DO BUSINESS. THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON WHY WE SAID GO TO THE STATE COMPANIES, LOOK AT THOSE FIVE, PICK ONE OF THE ONES, AND LET'S LET US DO IT. COME BACK WITHIN THREE MONTHS, APPLES TO APPLES, AND WE'LL MAKE A DECISION THEN. WHY ARE WE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION TODAY? >>KEVIN BECKNER: AND I DO APOLOGIZE, MR. CHAIRMAN. I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT THE AGENDA. AGAIN, THE ONLY REASON WHY THIS CAME UP, I BROUGHT THIS FORWARD, IS BECAUSE THIS PARTICULAR COMPANY ALREADY HAS THE RELATIONSHIP AND ALREADY HAS EXPERIENCE WITH THE COUNTY, IT HAS WITH THE CITY OF TAMPA. IT ALSO HAS A CONTRACT WITH THE AVIATION AUTHORITY. I'M JUST TRYING TO AGAIN -- NOT TO DELAY THIS PROCESS, I'M TRYING TO -- I DON'T WANT -- I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE TAKE OUR TIME TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT FOR THE EMPLOYEES, SO -- BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND TIME SENSITIVITY. ALL I'M TRYING TO DO IS TO ALLOW, AGAIN, A COMPANY THAT HAS -- THAT HAS A WELCOME REPUTATION, WE ALREADY HAVE AN EXISTING RELATIONSHIP WITH TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE, YOU KNOW -- INSTEAD OF GOING OUT TO THE STATE, WE KEEP THE BUSINESS LOCAL, AND AGAIN, WE CAN EXPEDITE THIS PROCESS, AGAIN NOT TO RUSH TO A DECISION, BUT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I KNOW THAT TIME IS ALSO OF AN ESSENCE. >>KEN HAGAN: PLEASE REPEAT THE MOTION. >>KEVIN BECKNER: I WOULD MAKE A MOTION THAT STAFF WOULD GO AND INVESTIGATE THE HOURLY RATES AND COMPARE THEM WITH WHAT IS LISTED ON THE STATE CONTRACT LIST AS WELL AS THE -- FOR ARTHUR J. GALLAGHER RISK MANAGEMENT COMPANY AND THAT THEY REPORT TO US AT THE LAND USE MEETING THIS TUESDAY, JULY 21st, AND THEN THAT ALSO STAFF CURRENTLY, UNTIL WE HEAR BACK FROM THE STAFF, THEY SUSPEND ENTERING INTO ANY CONTRACTUAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE STATE VENDORS. >>KEN HAGAN: AND WOULD YOU LIKE THE STAFF TO COME BACK WITH A RECOMMENDATION OR JUST SHOW YOU THE HOURLY -- SHOW THE HOURLY RATES? >>JIM NORMAN: DID YOU ACCEPT MY AMENDMENT UP TO SIX MONTHS? >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: I THOUGHT IT WAS 12 MONTHS. >>MARK SHARPE: ACCEPT IT. I'M GOING TO DENY. I WANT TO SPEAK. >>KEVIN BECKNER: IF I -- YOUR AMENDMENT AGAIN, I'M SORRY. >>JIM NORMAN: UP TO THE SIX MONTHS AND NOT LOCKED INTO 09 DAYS. >>KEVIN BECKNER: YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE EXTENSION OF THE CONTRACT? >>JIM NORMAN: YES. >>KEVIN BECKNER: OKAY. YES, I WILL ACCEPT THAT. >>MARK SHARPE: AND LET ME JUST -- >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER SHARPE: >>MARK SHARPE: -- ASK -- I HOPE A MAJORITY WILL VOTE THIS DOWN. WE'VE GOT TO MAKE A DECISION ON A LOT OF VERY IMPORTANT ISSUES AFFECTING OUR BUDGET, AND THIS IS ONE. THIS IS A DECISION WE HAVE TO MAKE. WHAT WE'RE DOING, LIKE I SAID YESTERDAY, IS PUNTING. WE HAVE THE FACTS. WE HAVE ONE OF THE BEST FIRMS IN THE NATION THAT'S PROVIDED US WITH THE DATA AND THE DETAIL. >>KEN HAGAN: WORLD. >>MARK SHARPE: AND THE WORLD. THEY MADE IT VERY CLEAR TO US THAT PREMIUMS WILL GO UP. IF WE DELAY SIX MONTHS, A YEAR, PREMIUMS WILL GO UP. I DON'T UNDERSTAND. WE HAVE TAKEN ACTION IN THE PAST WHERE WE'VE GONE IN BECAUSE WE THOUGHT WE SAW A SAVINGS, A SMALL SAVINGS, AND WE'VE OVERTURNED THE RECOMMENDATION OF STAFF AND SAID WE THINK THERE'S A WAY TO SAVE MONEY AND WE'RE GOING TO OVERTURN STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION AND GO WITH A DIFFERENT VENDOR, WHICH I'VE OFTENTIMES DISAGREED WITH. IN THIS CASE WE HAVE THROUGH A VERY ARDUOUS PROCESS A DEVELOPER WHICH HAS COME OUT AND INDICATED TO US THAT THEY CAN GIVE US A SIGNIFICANT SAVINGS, A SIGNIFICANT SAVINGS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, AND THE -- THE EVIDENCE IS CLEAR. NO ONE'S BEEN ABLE TO POINT TO ONE FACT TO SUGGEST THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH WHAT THEY'VE DONE, AND IT'S BEEN SCRUBBED AND CHECKED, AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO TURN AROUND AND DELAY POTENTIALLY RAISING PREMIUMS FOR EVERY EMPLOYEE WHO WORKS FOR THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE -- THE BUDGET DOESN'T HAVE ANYMORE MONEY AVAILABLE FOR US TO COVER THE DIFFERENCE. AND YES, THERE'S GOING TO BE A -- YOU'RE GOING FROM ONE INSURER TO ANOTHER. IT IS DIFFICULT. I RECOGNIZE THAT, BUT I THINK THAT THIS IS A BIG MISTAKE, A FINANCIAL MISTAKE, AND THE OTHER THING I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, MR. BECKNER, IS I WANT STAFF TO BE SCRUBBING EVERY WAY HOW WE'RE GOING TO SAVE PARKS, VICTIMS ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, NOT GOING BACK AND LOOKING AT THE NUMBER ON HOW WE'RE GOING TO PICK THE COMPANY THAT'S GOING TO DO THE ASSESSMENT ON THE NUMBERS FOR OUR OWN PERSONAL HEALTH INSURANCE PLAN. >>KEVIN BECKNER: WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, MR. SHARPE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OVER A $170-MILLION CONTRACT IN TWO YEARS, AND I WOULD ALSO RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE THAT I THINK I DID SHOW SOME FACTS THAT AT LEAST WARRANT US TO AT LEAST DO A COMPARISON, AND YOU KNOW WHAT, WORST-CASE SCENARIO, AS I MENTIONED, IS THAT THEY COME BACK AND IT'S THE SAME STAFF RECOMMENDATION, BUT THEN AGAIN, I THINK WE CAN LOOK IN THE EYES OF OUR EMPLOYEES AND THE PUBLIC AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, IT IS WHAT IT IS, WE DID OUR DUE DILIGENCE, THIS IS THE WAY WE'RE GOING FORWARD, BUT AT LEAST WE TOOK A COUPLE EXTRA MOMENTS TO MAKE SURE WHAT WE'RE DOING IS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE EMPLOYEES, AND THAT'S WHY I'VE BEEN SO ADAMANT ABOUT THIS. >>MARK SHARPE: AND WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT IN THREE MONTHS BECAUSE IF WE -- I'VE GOT ALONG -- WENT ALONG WITH THE MOTION YESTERDAY THAT SAID THREE MONTHS, BUT -- >>JIM NORMAN: [INAUDIBLE] YOU CALLED FOR A VOTE A SECOND AGO. WELL -- >>KEN HAGAN: DID WE HAVE A SECOND ON THE MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER BECKNER? >>JIM NORMAN: I'M GOING TO GET IN LINE. >>KEN HAGAN: IS THERE A SECOND FOR COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >> SECOND. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. WELL, THEN, LET'S VOTE. >>ROSE FERLITA: MR. CHAIRMAN -- >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA, THE LAST COMMENT. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. GENTLEMEN, LOOK, IT WAS MY MOTION YESTERDAY THAT SAID THREE MONTHS, HAVE THEM COME BACK WITH A BEST AND FINAL. THAT WAS MY MOTION. COMMISSIONER SHARPE, YOU TRIED TO ACCOMMODATE COMMISSIONER BECKNER'S REQUEST OF HAVING A CONSULTANT. HE WANTED JUST A CONSULTANT OUT OF TWO I BELIEVE THAT ARE LOCAL, AND ALTHOUGH, YES, WE SHOULD CATER TO GIVING BUSINESS TO LOCAL VENDORS OF ANY SORT, WE'RE STILL IN A CRUNCH TIME. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS VERY JUSTIFIABLE, THE FACT THAT THERE'S A HUGE COST DIFFERENCE. HE'S TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS ALSO VERY IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT ANYTHING WE CAN IN TERMS OF SELF- FUNDED, FULLY INSURED, AND THOSE ARE ALL VALID. COMMISSIONER NORMAN IS CONCERNED ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP WE HAD WITH CIGNA BEFORE AS OPPOSED TO HUMANA NOW, SO I THOUGHT THAT MY COMPROMISE WAS GOOD. >> [INAUDIBLE] >>ROSE FERLITA: BUT -- PLEASE LET ME FINISH. THE ONE THING, THOUGH, IS THAT WE STILL HAVE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THE LONG-TERM RAMIFICATIONS ARE FOR OUR EMPLOYEES. I KNOW THAT MR. JOHNSON KEEPS REALLY TRYING TO HARP A LITTLE BIT TOO HARD ABOUT, YEAH, THEIR FEES WILL BE EVEN, FLAT, BUT OURS WILL GO UP. WELL, IF IT COMES TO A GOOD END PRODUCT, I THINK THAT THE EMPLOYEES KNOW WE'RE JUST NOT GAMBLING WITH WHAT'S GOING TO GO UP AND WHAT'S NOT GOING TO GO UP IF ULTIMATELY WE GET A GOOD PRODUCT, BUT HE MAKES A GOOD POINT. I DON'T WANT TO BELABOR THIS ANY LONGER THAN IT TAKES TO ACCOMMODATE AT LEAST MOST OF THE CONCERNS THAT EVERYBODY HAD. HE WANTS A CONSULTANT. THE STATE HAS THIS LIST. I'M SURE THAT THE STATE DID SOME SOUL SEARCHING BEFORE THEY DECIDED THAT THESE PEOPLE WERE NOT -- OR ARE ETHICAL AND HAVE THE CREDENTIALS. MR. NORMAN WANTS US TO LOOK AT IT AGAIN. MY MOTION DID THAT. MARK DOESN'T WANT US TO GO ANY FURTHER THAN WE HAVE TO BECAUSE OF THE COST CONTAINMENT. I HAVE GIVEN BOTH VENDORS IN THAT MOTION THAT YOU GUYS SUPPORTED THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME BACK WITH BEST AND FINAL. THE ACCUSATION WAS YESTERDAY THAT CIGNA'S TRYING TO BUY THIS. YOU KNOW, I DON'T REALLY CARE WHO'S TRYING TO BUY WHAT. IF WE'RE THE BENEFICIARIES OF WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO, THAT CERTAINLY HAS TO BE IN THE EQUATION FOR ME, ALTHOUGH SINCE I HAD SOME CONCERNS, I THOUGHT A LITTLE BIT OF A DELAY WOULD BE FINE. NOW, BOTH GUYS, HUMANA, CIGNA, HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME BACK WITH THE LOWEST PRICE, ALMOST LIKE BUYING A CAR. YOUR PRICE WAS TOO HIGH, YOU BETTER COME BACK WITH YOUR FINAL BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO TO CHOOSE. I THINK WE WERE IN GOOD SHAPE YESTERDAY. I THINK AFTER TWO AND A HALF HOURS OF BELABORING THIS -- IF IT WERE A HUGE CONTRACT, MR. BECKNER, THAT WE HAD TO LOOK AT ALL THESE DOLLARS THAT WE WERE GIVING TO LOCAL VENDORS, THEN I WOULD SAY YES, LET'S PROLONG IT AND DO THAT, BUT WE'RE NOT PUTTING AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED ANY OF OUR EMPLOYEES -- GOD KNOWS WE WOULDN'T DO THAT, I WOULDN'T DO THAT. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING ELSE, HAVE A MEANINGFUL DISCUSSION OCTOBER 1 OR WHENEVER IN THREE MONTHS, AND DECIDE WHO CAME BACK TO THE TABLE, LAST-DITCH EFFORT, WHAT WE NEED TO CHOOSE IN TERMS OF THEM, WHAT WE NEED TO CHOOSE IN TERMS OF WHAT'S BEST FOR OUR EMPLOYEES. IT'S A HARD CHOICE, BUT SOONER OR LATER, WE HAVE TO UP OR DOWN THIS, AND I THINK MY MOTION YESTERDAY PRETTY MUCH ADDRESSED THAT, SO FOR THAT REASON, I'M NOT GOING TO SUPPORT YOUR MOTION. I'M SORRY. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. WE'VE GOT THE MOTION COMMISSIONER BECKNER, SECOND COMMISSIONER WHITE. I'M ALSO GOING TO OPPOSE THE MOTION AND STICK WITH THE ACTION THE BOARD TOOK YESTERDAY. PLEASE RECORD YOUR VOTE. >>RECORDING SECRETARY: MOTION CARRIED 4-3, COMMISSIONERS FERLITA, HAGAN, AND SHARPE VOTING NO. >>KEN HAGAN: FIRST BUDGET WORKSHOP ITEM, PLEASE. >>PAT BEAN: WELL, THE FIRST ITEM -- THE FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA TODAY IS ACTUALLY A FOLLOW-UP TO A DISCUSSION THAT OCCURRED AT YESTERDAY'S BOARD MEETING, AND IT WAS BROUGHT TO THE TABLE BY COMMISSIONER FERLITA, AND COMMISSIONER FERLITA, YOU SHOULD HAVE ALREADY A PACKAGE THAT WAS SENT TO YOUR OFFICE THIS MORNING ALONG AS WITH -- TO EVERY OFFICE THAT ACKNOWLEDGES THAT YES, INDEED, YOU WERE CORRECT. THERE WERE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WERE NOT PROVIDED TO YOU AT THAT TIME THAT -- IN THE ORDER AS WE WENT BACK AND EXAMINED IT, WE DID FIND THAT THERE WAS A PROVISION THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN A COPY OF THE RESUMES OF THE TWO PEOPLE AND YOU ALSO SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN THEIR ACTUAL SALARY. I HAVE CORRECTED THAT ACTION WITH GIVING YOU THIS INFORMATION TODAY AS PART OF CURING, AS THE ATTORNEY REFERRED TO IT YESTERDAY, THAT ERROR. YOU DO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY AT THIS POINT, I GUESS IF YOU WISH, TO SAY YOU DO NOT CONSENT TO THESE TWO PEOPLE. I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU AND HOPEFULLY ASK THAT YOU NOT DO THAT SINCE THEY'RE TWO VERY VITAL PEOPLE TO THIS ORGANIZATION. I THINK IT WOULD BE A VERY DIFFICULT THING FOR US IF THEY WERE NOT CONTINUED IN THEIR POSITIONS BECAUSE WE'RE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BUDGET AND TRYING TO BE SURE THAT WE PRESERVE OUR BOND RATING STATUS, SO I APOLOGIZE FOR THE FACT I WAS -- I ASKED AND I WAS ASSURED THAT WE HAD DONE EVERYTHING THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO DO. UNFORTUNATELY, WE MADE A MISTAKE, AND HERE IS THE INFORMATION THAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE GOTTEN AT THAT TIME, AND I BELIEVE THAT BOTH OF THEM HAVE DEMONSTRATED THAT THEY'RE DOING AN OUTSTANDING JOB IN THOSE TWO POSITIONS, AND I CERTAINLY REQUEST THE BOARD TO CONTINUE THEM IN THOSE POSITIONS. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. FIRST OF ALL, MS. BEAN, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS INFORMATION FORWARD TODAY. LET ME AGAIN REITERATE WHAT MY ISSUES WERE YESTERDAY BUT VERY, VERY QUICKLY. NEVER WAS THIS ABOUT THE ABILITIES OR THE PERFORMANCE OF THOSE TWO PARTICULAR ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATORS, IN ADDITION TO THE ONES IN 2005. NONETHELESS, PROCESS WAS NOT FOLLOWED PER THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE AT THE TIME THAT THIS WAS DISCUSSED IN NOVEMBER, AND I THINK I VERY CLEARLY SEPARATED WHAT WE NEEDED TO KNOW AND HEAR AND BE BRIEFED ON IN TERMS OF REORG AND APPOINTMENTS. MY -- MY POSITION IS THAT SINCE THIS INFORMATION WAS NOT PROVIDED WHEN YOU ASKED ME TO MAKE THESE APPOINTMENTS, I BELIEVE THESE APPOINTMENTS, INCLUDING THE COMPENSATION, WERE NOT EFFECTIVE. NOW, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE SALARIES THEY HAD PRIOR TO THOSE RECOMMENDED RAISES, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEY DO OR DON'T DO IN YOUR REORG, BUT I'M SAYING IN TERMS OF APPOINTMENTS AND THE INCREASES THAT WERE PROVIDED, POLICY WASN'T FOLLOWED, AND RENEE, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU, PLEASE, TO WEIGH IN ON THIS, BUT BASED ON WHAT YOU PROVIDED TODAY - - LATE IS LATE. THIS IS NOT -- THIS IS TOO LATE FOR WHAT WE VOTED UPON OR WERE NOT EVEN ASKED TO VOTE UPON IN NOVEMBER. YOUR -- YOUR REQUEST WAS FOR REORG AND NEVER APPOINTMENTS, SO THIS MAKES IT -- I DON'T KNOW IF THE RIGHT TERM IS "NULL AND VOID," BUT I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY NOW BECAUSE OUR ADMINISTRATOR HAS PRESENTED THIS TO LOOK AT WHAT I SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROVIDED THEM -- THEN AND HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY NOW TO SAY NO. I DON'T WANT TO -- I DON'T WANT TO REHASH STUFF YESTERDAY, BUT YOU KNOW, I HAD BROUGHT UP AN ISSUE ON THE AGENDA, AND I WAS GOING TO CLEARLY ADDRESS IT, AND THEN AT THE END SOMEBODY SAID, OKAY, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE HUGHES THING. I FEEL THE SAME THING TODAY. IT'S ALMOST LIKE A RERUN. I SAID YESTERDAY YOU DIDN'T PROVIDE US THE REQUIREMENTS, THOSE SIX POINTS IN TERMS OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE. YOU DID NOW. IT'S TOO LATE. IT'S TOO LATE FOR WHAT WE WERE ASKED TO LOOK AT WITHOUT THE APPROPRIATE INFORMATION, SO MS. LEE, IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE ADMINISTRATOR WANTS US TO LOOK AT, CERTAINLY I DON'T WANT TO CRUMBLE ANY KIND OF A GAME PLAN, ESPECIALLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BUDGET, BUT I DO NOT WANT AT THAT POINT STILL SUPPORTING THE REORG TO SAY I'M GOING TO SUPPORT THE INCREASES. I'M NOT. I'M NOT BECAUSE IT'S NOT FAIR TO THE PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM, IN THIS COUNTY GOVERNMENT, AND TO PEOPLE THAT PAY US TAXES, SO I THINK WE NEED TO SEPARATE THE TWO. THE CRITERIA FOR ASKING US TO WEIGH IN ON AN APPOINTMENT WERE DIFFERENT THAN THE CRITERIA TO REORGANIZE. REORGANIZE IS EFFICIENCY AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED. THE -- THE RAISES, THE INAPPROPRIATE RAISES SEPARATE AND DIVORCED FROM THEIR PERFORMANCE IS SOMETHING THAT THIS BOARD HAD TO BE ABLE TO WEIGH IN ON WITH THE APPROPRIATE INFORMATION AND WE DIDN'T. SO THAT'S DONE. SO NOW I THINK WE HAVE TO GO FORWARD, AND YOU TELL US WHAT OUR OPTIONS ARE. RATIFY? WHAT? YOU TELL US. >>RENEE LEE: WELL, COMMISSIONER, I THINK YOU HAVE SEVERAL OPTIONS BEFORE YOU TODAY, AND YOU MENTIONED THE WORD "RATIFY," AND THAT'S CERTAINLY ONE OF THEM. YOU CAN TREAT THIS AS CURING THE DEFECT IN THE ORIGINAL MEMO AND RATIFY IT BACK TO THAT DATE, AND -- AND JUST LET ME GIVE YOU A FOOTNOTE HERE. THE BOARD'S AUTHORITY UNDER THE ADMINISTRATIVE ORDER IS TO ADVISE AND CONSENT TO THE APPOINTMENTS, NOT TO THE SALARY, SO YOU CAN CONSENT TO THE APPOINTMENT PROPOSED BY THE ADMINISTRATOR, YOU CAN REFUSE TO CONSENT TO THE APPOINTMENT, OR YOU COULD RATIFY THE APPOINTMENTS BACK TO THE ORIGINAL DATE. IF YOU WANTED TO, YOU COULD TREAT THE APPOINTMENT AS FROM TODAY FORWARD, BUT AS YOU PROBABLY -- YOU KNOW, THESE EMPLOYEES ARE ALREADY SERVING THIS THAT POSITION AND HAVE BEEN SERVING SINCE NOVEMBER. SO YOU HAVE A NUMBER OF -- A NUMBER OF OPTIONS BEFORE YOU, AND I -- I THINK PROBABLY YOU COULD EITHER CONSENT, RATIFY, OR NOT CONSENT TO THE APPOINTMENTS. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. AND ON THE THIRD CHOICE, IF I NOT CONSENT TO THE APPOINTMENTS, DOES THAT, WITHOUT VIOLATING THE CHARTER, NULLIFY THE INCREASES? THAT'S WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU'RE GOING TO SEPARATE IT, AND IF WE CAN'T DO WHAT I WANT TO DO, THEN IT GOES PACK TO HER, BACK TO HER LEADERSHIP, AND BACK TO GOOD JUDGMENT AS OUR ADMINISTRATOR. WHAT I WANT TO DO IS I DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED -- WITHIN THE REALM OF MY AUTHORITY AND MY PURVIEW, I DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED WITH DIMINISHING THE EFFICIENCIES THAT THESE TWO GENTLEMEN BRING, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I AM JUST AS CONCERNED OR MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE REORGANIZATION THAT BROUGHT ABOUT INCREASES THAT THE REST OF THE COUNTY EMPLOYEES ARE NOT EXPERIENCING. SO DO I HAVE A CHOICE THAT DOES THAT? >>RENEE LEE: TO EFFECT THE SALARY OF THE EMPLOYEES NOW? NO, YOU DON'T. >>ROSE FERLITA: NOT THE FORMER SALARY BUT THE SALARY WITH -- >>RENEE LEE: YOU DO NOT, COMMISSIONER. >>ROSE FERLITA: -- WITH AN INCREASE. >>RENEE LEE: YOU WOULD ONLY VOTE YES OR NO TO ADVICE AND CONSENT. >>ROSE FERLITA: SO ALONG THE LINES OF ADVICE AND CONSENT, IF I SAID NO, I DO NOT WANT TO SUPPORT THE APPOINTMENT, I CAN DO THAT? >>RENEE LEE: YES, YOU COULD. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. AND IF I DON'T SUPPORT THE APPOINTMENT OR IF THE APPOINTMENTS DON'T GET APPROVED BY THE MAJORITY OF THIS BOARD, THE ADMINISTRATOR STILL HAS THE RIGHT AT A LOWER- LEVEL CLASSIFICATION TO GIVE THEM THOSE INCREASES? >>RENEE LEE: SHE HAS -- SHE HAS THE AUTHORITY, COMMISSIONER, BY THE CHARTER TO -- TO PAY THE SALARY OF ALL THE EMPLOYEES IN HILLSBOROUGH -- UNDER HER JURISDICTION. >>ROSE FERLITA: WELL, THEN, THAT KIND OF PUTS ME IN A PREDICAMENT, AND I'LL YIELD TO MY COLLEAGUES UNTIL I THINK OF SOMETHING ELSE, BUT I THINK IN ORDER TO MAKE A STATEMENT AND TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON WHAT I BELIEVE PHILOSOPHICALLY, IT'S A SHAME THAT BASED ON CHARTER, I CAN'T SEPARATE APPOINTMENT AND NOT APPROVE RAISES, BUT BECAUSE OF WHAT THIS -- THIS SYMBOLIZES, I WON'T BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THEIR APPOINTMENTS THEN. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: WE WERE SAYING A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE, WHAT WAS OUR INFORMATION ABOUT SALARIES, AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS. WHAT I -- I WOULD LIKE TO ASSIGN TO THE -- TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY A REVIEW OF THE MINUTES THAT -- WAS -- DID THIS BOARD HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE RAISES THAT WERE -- WERE -- WAS IT DISCUSSED BY THIS BOARD IN CONTEXT OR DIRECTLY OR WHATEVER AND JUST BASICALLY LET US KNOW IF -- IF THAT OCCURRED. I KNOW THAT WAS SAID YESTERDAY THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE KNOWLEDGE. I'D LIKE TO KNOW IN A RESEARCH OF THE MINUTES SINCE JANUARY IF WE HAD KNOWLEDGE. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: THAT'S A GOOD POINT TOO, MR. NORMAN. AND AT THE TIME OF THE APPOINTMENTS, WAS IT DISCUSSED? I'D LIKE TO KNOW -- WE CAN SEE IF WE HAD ANYTHING THAT WAS GOING ON ALONG THAT LINE, BUT -- AND, YOU KNOW, I VOTED TO -- AND COMMISSIONER FERLITA, I SHARE THE SAME CONCERN. I VOTED TO APPROVE THE -- THE PROMOTION OR THE RESTRUCTURE, I DIDN'T VOTE TO APPROVE THE PAY RAISE, AND MAYBE THERE'S A MOTION THAT COULD BE MADE -- AND I'M JUST TALKING OUT LOUD, THE TWO OF US HERE, AND MADAM, YOU CAN SHARE THE FLOOR WITH ME, BUT MAYBE THERE COULD BE A MOTION THAT WOULD APPROVE THEM, AND THEN IN LIGHT OF THE PROBLEMS THAT HAVE SURFACED WITH THE MORALE OF THE STAFF AND THE PERCEPTION OF THE COMMUNITY, LET THE ADMINISTRATOR, NOW THAT SHE KNOWS WHAT THE CONCERN IS, MAKE THAT DECISION. >>ROSE FERLITA: WELL -- AND YOU MEAN IN TERMS OF MAKING THE REORGANIZATION EFFECTIVE AND THE APPOINTMENTS AND MAKING -- RECOMMENDING TO HER THAT SHE GO WITH THE APPOINTMENTS BUT NOT THE INCREASE IN -- IN SALARIES? >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: LET HER, NOW THAT SHE KNOWS -- >>ROSE FERLITA: RIGHT, BECAUSE WE CAN'T DO THAT. YOU WANT THE BEST OF BOTH WORLD AND SO DO I FOR OUR EMPLOYEES BUT WE'RE NOT GETTING IT. SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO GIVE THEM RAISES -- CORRECT ME IF I GO -- >>RENEE LEE: THAT'S CORRECT. >>ROSE FERLITA: -- EVEN IF SHE DOESN'T GET THOSE APPOINTMENTS APPROVED. WE DON'T HAVE ANY SAY-SO ABOUT SALARIES THAT SHE GIVES EXCEPT FROM THE FACT THAT IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO AND IT'S THE LEADERSHIP THING TO DO, SO MY HARDSHIP HERE, AND I THINK IT'S YOURS HERE AS WELL, COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM, WHETHER YOU APPROVE THE APPOINTMENTS, WHETHER YOU APPROVE THE REORG, WHETHER YOU WANT TO APPROVE JUST THE REORG WITHOUT THE APPOINTMENTS, SHE CAN GIVE THEM ANYTHING SHE WANTS -- >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: CORRECT. >>ROSE FERLITA: -- AND BALANCE THE BUDGET ON THE BACKS OF THE FIRST-LINE EMPLOYEES. SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO IT. SHE ALSO HAS THE RIGHT TO DO THE RIGHT THING. I CAN'T MAKE HER, YOU CAN'T MAKE HER. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHERE I'M LOOKING FOR THE COMMON GROUND. SHE KNOWS OUR CONCERNS. SHE KNOWS THE CONCERN OF THE PEOPLE OF THIS ORGANIZATION, AND PUT THAT BACK -- THAT DECISION BACK ON HER AND LET HER MAKE THAT DECISION. >>ROSE FERLITA: THAT'S CORRECT. BUT ONE OTHER QUESTION TOO ALONG THAT SAME LINE, AND I DON'T MEAN TO PIGGYBACK ON YOUR TIME, BUT EVEN IF WE DIDN'T APPROVE THAT APPOINTMENT, EVERYTHING THAT THOSE TWO GENTLEMEN ARE DOING THEY STILL COULD DO IN TERMS OF THEIR WORKLOAD. JUST BECAUSE I'M AN ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR OR SOMETHING ELSE, IF THE ADMINISTRATOR ASKS ME TO DO SOMETHING, DOES THAT MEAN IF THAT APPOINTMENT IS VOIDED, THEN I DON'T HAVE TO DO SOMETHING? I WOULD THINK JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, YOU DO AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO GET THROUGH IT; RIGHT OR NO? >>RENEE LEE: WELL, COMMISSIONER, THERE ARE JOB DESCRIPTIONS, AND I THINK PROBABLY ONE OF -- AND I WOULD LET THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR ADDRESS THIS, BUT I THINK THE JOB DESCRIPTION OF THE BUDGET DIRECTOR IS PROBABLY DIFFERENT FROM THE JOB DESCRIPTION OF AN ACA. >>ROSE FERLITA: WELL, I'M SURE RIGHT NOW, MS. LEE, THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE'S JOB DESCRIPTIONS ARE INTENSELY DIFFERENT THAN THE JOBS THEY'RE DOING, BUT -- >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. MS. FERLITA, I THINK THERE IS A WAY TO GET WHERE YOU WANT TO GO, AND I THINK THAT WAY IS IF WE DID NOT APPROVE THE APPOINTMENTS THE WAY THAT THEY'RE SET, THEN, MR. WILLIAMS, I BELIEVE THE JOB CLASSIFICATIONS GO -- REVERT BACK TO WHERE THEY WERE. IS THAT CORRECT? >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: I'M NOT TOTALLY SURE THAT THAT'S THE CASE, COMMISSIONER. BY THE WAY, GEORGE WILLIAMS, HUMAN RESOURCES DIRECTOR, BOCC ADMINISTRATION. AGAIN, THE APPOINTMENT IS BY MS. BEAN. >>KEVIN WHITE: BUT IF THE APPOINTMENT IS NULL AND VOID, THEN THEY'RE RECLASSED BACK TO WHERE THEY WERE, CORRECT OR INCORRECT? >>RENEE LEE: WE'RE IN A GRAY AREA THERE, COMMISSIONER, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF THAT JOB'S GONE AWAY, I DON'T KNOW -- I MEAN, A NUMBER OF THINGS -- >>PAT BEAN: NO. COULD I JUST EXPLAIN A COUPLE THINGS. >>KEVIN WHITE: NO, I WANT TO FINISH -- I WANT TO FINISH MY POINT BECAUSE IF THEIR JOB DESCRIPTION GOES BACK TO THEIR OLD CLASSIFICATION AND WHERE THEY WERE -- ONE OF THE REASONS FOR THE REORG WAS THAT THEY WERE AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN AND -- >>PAT BEAN: NO. IT WASN'T -- >>KEVIN WHITE: THEY WEREN'T CAPPED OUT? >>PAT BEAN: NO. >>KEVIN WHITE: THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING, THEY WERE CAPPED OUT AND THERE WAS NO MORE -- THERE WAS NO MORE LEVERAGE TO BE ALLOWED FOR THEM TAKING ON THE EXTRA RESPONSIBILITIES FOR THAT, SO IF THAT -- SO THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING. THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING. SO -- AND IF A CERTAIN JOB CLASSIFICATION CAPS OUT AT A CERTAIN DOLLAR AMOUNT, THEN WE REORG TO EXPAND THAT PARTICULAR PAY RANGE TO PICK UP EXTRA RESPONSIBILITIES, BUT IF WE WENT BACK TO THE OLD CHART, THEN THE PAY RAISE OR THE MAX CAP SHOULD BE AT THE OLD PAY RATE. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: PERMIT ME TO THROW OUT A CAUTION HERE. ANY -- ANY REORG OF JOB FUNCTION WILL ALWAYS PERTAIN TO SALARY DOLLARS, ALWAYS, OKAY. IN REGARDS TO CIVIL SERVICE POSITIONS, IF A PERSON IS DOING SOMETHING BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THEIR CURRENT JOB FUNCTION, THEY'RE WORKING OUT OF CLASS, ALL RIGHT, SO AS THE REORG STRATEGY WAS IMPLEMENTED CONCERNING MS. BEAN AND THE -- AND HER TEAM ADMINISTRATORS, THE ISSUE BECAME WHAT COULD SHE DO TO SAVE DOLLARS, OKAY, AND, IN ESSENCE, THE STRATEGY AS IT WAS PURPORTED TO ME AND WHY IT WAS SO ATTRACTIVE TO ME ALL THOSE MONTHS AGO WAS SHE WAS GOING TO REORG HER SENIOR STAFF, IN ESSENCE, AND SAVING UPWARDS OF A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS. THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT, BECAUSE WE WOULD NO LONGER HAVE TO CONCERN OURSELVES WITH RECRUITING TWO SEPARATE POSITIONS BY THE WAY IN WHICH WE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN A POSITION TO HIRE SOMEBODY $120,000 EACH FOR -- FOR THE BACKFILL OF MR. MERRILL AND MR. JOHNSON, I MEAN ALL OF THAT WAS WORKING AT THE SAME TIME, SO -- >>KEVIN WHITE: I UNDERSTAND THAT. THE POINT I'M TRYING TO GET AT IS WHEN YOU COME UP WITH A CLASSIFICATION, WHATEVER -- THERE'S A RECLASS OR WHATEVER - - A SPECIFIC CLASSIFICATION THAT WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS NOW, THERE ARE CERTAIN LEVELS OF PAY RANGES WITHIN THAT CLASSIFICATION. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: THAT IS CORRECT. >>KEVIN WHITE: AM I CORRECT, SIR? >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: THAT IS CORRECT, SIR. >>KEVIN WHITE: OKAY. NOW, IF THESE CONFIRMATIONS ARE NULL AND VOID, THE PEOPLE IN THAT POSITION SHOULD REVERT BACK TO THE CLASSIFICATION IN WHICH THEY WERE BEFORE. NOW, IF WE WANT TO ADD RESPONSIBILITIES, REDEFINE A NEW CLASSIFICATION WHICH WAS DONE BUT NOT CONFIRMED, THEN THE ADMINISTRATOR COULD BRING THAT BEFORE THIS BOARD AND SAY THIS IS THE NEW CLASSIFICATION IN WHICH I'M WANTING TO CREATE, THIS IS THE PAY RANGE FOR THAT CLASSIFICATION, NOW WE'RE GOING TO BRING IT BEFORE THE BOARD FOR THE BOARD MEMBERS TO LOOK AT AND CONSIDER. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: ONE SLIGHT CORRECTION, SIR. >>KEVIN WHITE: OKAY. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: SHE DIDN'T CREATE ANY CLASSIFICATIONS. >>KEVIN WHITE: OKAY. GEORGE ALL RIGHT. SHE HAD TWO GENTLEMEN IN A LOWER CLASSIFICATION HANDLING THEIR FUNCTION AT A LOWER LEVEL. >>KEVIN WHITE: OKAY. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: SHE DECIDED TO PROMOTE THEM UP INTO THE HIGHER ALREADY-EXISTING CLASSIFICATION, ALL RIGHT, LEAVING THEM TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR NOT ONLY THE HIGHER CLASSIFICATION IN WHICH THEY ARE NOW PROMOTED INTO BUT ALSO THE RETENTION OF THEIR JOB FUNCTION IN THE LOWER CLASSIFICATION. >>KEVIN WHITE: LOWER CLASSIFICATION. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: IN ESSENCE, PUTTING US IN A POSITION THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE TO RECRUIT, WE DIDN'T HAVE TO GO OUT AND FIND REPLACEMENTS FOR MR. JOHNSON AND MR. MERRILL. >>KEVIN WHITE: SO THIS WAS BASICALLY STRATEGERY. >>PAT BEAN: STRATEGERY? >>KEVIN WHITE: THAT'S SOME NEW WORDS COMING OUT IN WEBSTER'S. [LAUGHTER] >>JIM NORMAN: THAT'S IN THE BIBLE TOO; RIGHT? [LAUGHTER] >>KEN HAGAN: GEORGE BUSH. COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW HOW -- YOU KNOW, HOW FAR WE WANT TO GO WITH THIS. I TOOK THE QUICK RESEARCH OF -- I HAD SOME STUFF PULLED WITH CIVIL SERVICE. THERE'S A LOT OF -- THERE'S A LOT OF THIS, FOLKS. BACK ON 12/19/08, 27.8% IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING; AGING 10% -- >>MARK SHARPE: [INAUDIBLE] >>JIM NORMAN: RAISES. I MEAN, THERE'S PAGES OF PAGES OF CLASSIFICATION CHANGES IN THE COUNTY I GUESS I'M TRYING TO TELL YOU. THERE WERE CLASSIFICATION -- DIFFERENT -- REAL ESTATE 26.4%. I'LL JUST GIVE YOU THE -- CHILDREN'S BOARD 20%, 20.8. I MEAN -- AND THAT WAS ON 12/17. 11/26 ANOTHER CHILDREN'S BOARD, 19.4. CLERK'S OFFICE -- I MEAN, ALL THE WAY ACROSS. THESE ARE RAISING OF POSITIONS. I'M JUST SAYING IF -- WE NEED TO ADDRESS IT ALL. WE DON'T -- I DON'T WANT TO CHERRY-PICK. I WANT TO GO -- IF WE'RE GOING TO DO IT, LET'S DO IT RIGHT, AND I'M FAIRLY CONFIDENT AFTER WHAT I'VE DONE AS A RESEARCH OF THE MINUTES, THERE ARE INFORMATION IN THE MINUTES ABOUT DISCUSSION OF ALL THESE SALARIES. SO I -- I GUESS -- MY POINT IS, THAT'S WHY I WANT OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY TO ACTUALLY BE ON POINT IF WE'RE GOING TO - - LET'S BE ACCURATE. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. AND FOR POINT OF CLARIFICATION, IF THE REORG IS NOT APPROVED LIKE COMMISSIONER FERLITA AND COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM WERE HAVING A CONVERSATION -- IF THAT -- IF THE REORG AND THE -- WAS RESCINDED, WOULD THEN THOSE INDIVIDUALS REVERT BACK TO THEIR ORIGINAL CLASSIFICATION AND THEIR PAY BE ADJUSTED ACCORDINGLY, OR HOW WOULD THAT WORK? >>PAT BEAN: I WILL TELL YOU HOW -- HOW I BELIEVE IT WOULD WORK. I BELIEVE THAT BECAUSE THESE WERE OPPORTUNITIES AS DESCRIBED TO BE BY MR. JOHNSON HIMSELF RATHER UNUSUAL IN THE HISTORY OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY IN THAT I WENT TO HIM AND OFFERED HIM AN OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE UP INTO A PROMOTION. THIS IS NOT A RECLASS, THIS IS NOT A JOB RESTRUCTURING, THIS IS A PROMOTION, AND THE ONES THAT MR. NORMAN WAS READING TO YOU FROM THE CIVIL SERVICE RECORD, THE ONES THAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT ARE ALL PEOPLE IN ALL ORGANIZATIONS UNDER CIVIL SERVICE WHERE THERE HAVE BEEN PROMOTIONS GRANTED DURING THIS TIME PERIOD. BUT I SAID TO MR. JOHNSON AND TO MR. MERRILL, I WANT YOU TO GO TO THE HIGHER LEVEL, DO THIS ADDITIONAL JOB, THIS NEW JOB THAT I'M ASKING YOU TO TAKE BECAUSE IT WAS A DIFFERENT POSITION COMPLETELY, EXISTED BEFORE EXCEPT IN A SLIGHT DIFFERENT CONFIGURATION. I ELIMINATED THE DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR POSITION AND AN ASSISTANT COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND AN ADMINISTRATIVE SPECIALIST, SAVING OVER A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS. THEN I WENT TO THEM AND I SAID, NOW, I WANT YOU TO CONTINUE TO DO THE BUDGET JOB THAT YOU HAVE TODAY. YOU ARE GOING TO STILL BE THE BUDGET OFFICER, BUT I WOULD LIKE ALSO TO ASK YOU TO STEP UP, JOIN THE EXECUTIVE TEAM -- BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT ON THE EXECUTIVE TEAM -- BUT TAKE ON THE DUTIES OF THESE TWO NEW FUNCTIONS THAT I'M ASKING YOU TO TAKE ON, AND THAT IS CLEARLY DIFFERENT FROM A RECLASSIFICATION OF THE JOB. THE JOB THAT HE WAS DOING HE'S STILL DOING PLUS THE NEW JOB, AND THAT'S THE PROMOTION THAT HE GOT. SAME THING WITH MR. MERRILL. MR. MERRILL WAS OUR DEBT MANAGER. HE HAD BEEN DOING THAT FOR YEARS. I ASKED HIM DO YOUR DEBT MANAGEMENT JOB JUST AS YOU'RE DOING IT NOW, BUT I WANT YOU TO TAKE ON THESE OTHER RESPONSIBILITIES. BY DOING THAT, I ESSENTIALLY ELIMINATED THE COST OF ESSENTIALLY FIVE POSITIONS BY GIVING THEM AN INCREASE, BUT IT DIDN'T COST ANYWHERE NEAR THE SAVINGS. THE SAVINGS OVER THOSE -- OVER THIS WHOLE PROCESS, THE SAVINGS ARE WELL OVER A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU FOR THAT. I GUESS WHAT I'M STILL TRYING TO DETERMINE IS THAT IN -- IN THE PURVIEW OF THE BOARD, WITH -- ONE OF THE OPTIONS, IF I UNDERSTAND, MS. LEE, IS THAT WE COULD GO BACK AND VOTE NOT TO ACCEPT THE REORGANIZATION; IS THAT CORRECT? IS THAT ONE OF THE OPTIONS? >>RENEE LEE: IT IS, COMMISSIONER, AND -- WELL, AND THERE HAVE BEEN TWO ACTIONS TAKEN BY THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR DURING THIS TIME. THERE WAS A REORGANIZATION, WHICH IS HANDLED SEPARATELY, AND THEN THERE WERE NEW APPOINTMENTS TO THE POSITION, AND THAT WAS ERIC AND MIKE, AND THOSE ARE THE APPOINTMENTS TO WHICH THE BOARD GIVES ADVICE AND CONSENT. IF THE BOARD REFUSES TO CONSENT TO THE APPOINTMENTS, IF A NOMINEE IS A TEMPORARY, ACTING, OR INTERIM APPOINTEE TO THE OFFICE, THE APPOINTMENT SHALL CEASE UNLESS THE BOARD CONSENTS TO THE TEMPORARY ACTING OR INTERIM APPOINTMENT UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A PERMANENT APPOINTMENT IS MADE AND CONFIRMED. >>KEVIN BECKNER: SO IF THAT WERE TO HAPPEN, THEN, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PAY GRADE OR THE SCOPE OF THESE INDIVIDUALS? IF -- IF THAT ACTION WERE TAKEN BY THE BOARD. >>RENEE LEE: IF YOU REFUSE TO CONSENT TO THE APPOINTMENTS? WAS THAT -- >>KEVIN BECKNER: YES. >>RENEE LEE: I DON'T KNOW, COMMISSIONER. THAT'S TOTALLY WITHIN THE AUTHORITY OF THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. >>KEVIN BECKNER: SO THEN THAT RESORTS BACK TO -- DOES THAT CHANGE, THOUGH, PUT THEM IN A DIFFERENT SCOPE IF WE DO NOT APPROVE THE -- THE REORG -- AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE I GET THE TERMS RIGHT -- THE REORG, WHAT WE'RE DOING -- >>RENEE LEE: IT'S APPOINTMENTS. >>KEVIN BECKNER: DOES THAT CHANGE THE SCOPE AND THE SCOPE OF THE PAY THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO EARN OR -- >>PAT BEAN: YES. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THAT GOES BACK TO YOU THEN? >>PAT BEAN: YES. >>KEVIN BECKNER: SO THEN YOU COULD SAY THAT THEY DON'T FALL IN THAT CLASSIFICATION AND THEN YOU COULD SET -- YOU WOULD SET, THEN, THEIR PAY ACCORDINGLY TO WHAT THAT SCOPE TO WHERE IT FALLS BACK INTO, AND I GUESS MY -- I KNOW -- I'M JUST TRYING TO GET THIS CLEAR. WOULD THAT THEN TAKE THEM BACK TO THEIR ORIGINAL PAY GRADE OF WHERE THEY WERE AT BEFORE THE REORGANIZATION WAS APPROVED, AND THEN YOU WOULD THEN DETERMINE THEN WHAT PAY SCOPE IN THAT -- OR THE PAY GRADE IN THAT LEVEL WOULD BE -- >>PAT BEAN: IF THE BOARD DOES NOT COMMIT TO THE APPOINTMENT -- OR CONSENT TO THE APPOINTMENTS, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT I HAVE THE RIGHT TO KEEP THEM IN THE POSITIONS THAT I CURRENTLY HAVE THEM IN. THEY WOULD GO BACK TO THEIR -- WHICH THEY'RE STILL DOING IN ADDITION TO EVERYTHING ELSE THAT THEY'RE DOING. THEY COULD GO BACK TO DO THAT, AND THEN I HAVE TO GO OUT AND HIRE SOMEBODY BRAND-NEW TO COME IN AND THEN PAY AN ADDITIONAL SALARY. THAT WAS PART OF THE PROCESS THAT I WENT THROUGH WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, KNOWING WHAT WE HAD COMING AT US, HOW TO REDUCE THE COST AT THE EXECUTIVE LEVEL, AND AS I SAID BEFORE, WE HAVE REDUCED OUT OF JUST THE EXECUTIVE LEVEL OF MY OFFICE ALONE -- I'M NOT TALKING THE REST OF MY EXECUTIVE GROUP -- OVER $700,000 BY NOT HAVING TO REFILL THOSE TWO POSITIONS AND BY REDUCING THE COST OF THE -- THE POSITIONS THAT I HAD PREVIOUSLY ELIMINATED, THE DEPUTY, THE ASSISTANT THAT I ELIMINATED, AND I ELIMINATED THOSE POSITIONS. THEY DON'T EXIST ANYMORE, SO I DON'T THINK I COULD KEEP THEM IN THE CURRENT POSITIONS BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT ADMITTING OR CONSENTING TO LET THEM BE IN THAT POSITION IF YOU TAKE THAT VOTE. >>KEVIN BECKNER: MR. WILLIAMS, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT? >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: NO. SHE COVERED WHAT I WAS GOING TO STAND UP TO SAY. >>KEVIN BECKNER: OKAY. THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>RENEE LEE: COMMISSIONER -- I APOLOGIZE. MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY ADD THIS SO THAT -- THE BOARD MAY CONSENT TO A TEMPORARY ACTING OR INTERIM APPOINTMENT UNTIL SUCH A PERMANENT APPOINTMENT IS MADE, SO IF YOU DON'T CONSENT TO THESE PERMANENT APPOINTMENTS, YOU COULD MAKE IT ACTING OR INTERIM. >>MARK SHARPE: COULD THEY DO THE TEMPORARY WORK -- >>RENEE LEE: THAT IS ANOTHER OPTION. >>MARK SHARPE: -- WITHOUT THE PAY INCREASE? BECAUSE SEE -- >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: THE ANSWER TO THAT IS NO, COMMISSIONER. >>MARK SHARPE: OKAY. BECAUSE THE CONVERSATION -- AND I REMEMBER FULL WELL MY CONVERSATION, FIRST BRIEFING BACK IN NOVEMBER OF 2008 WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE CHANGES THAT WERE BEING MADE, AND I INDICATED AT THAT TIME, AS I PUBLICLY STATED DURING A BOARD MEETING AND AS I'VE STATED TO I THINK AT LEAST THE ST. PETE TIMES, I WAS -- I WAS APPRISED, SO I DID KNOW, OF THE REORGANIZATION AND THE FACT THAT THEY'D BE MAKING MORE. MY RESPONSE WAS THE REORGANIZATION MAKES SENSE, BUT THE MAKING MORE PART, AND I STATED, I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY TO DO THINGS, AND THE RESPONSE IN EFFECT WAS, WELL, WE CAN'T ASK THEM TO DO MORE AND NOT PAY THEM, AND I DISAGREED WITH THAT, AND SO NOW THIS IS PRIOR TO A BUDGET COMING OUT IN WHICH WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAJOR JOB ELIMINATIONS, EVERYONE TAKING A PAY REDUCTION, AND THE -- AND WHERE I STRUGGLE NOW, AND I STAND BY IT, IS THAT WE HAVE -- AND I FEEL -- AND I FEEL POORLY FOR THE INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED BECAUSE, AS I STATED SEVERAL MEETINGS BACK, THESE ARE GOOD INDIVIDUALS WHO WORK VERY HARD, BUT SO DOES EVERY EMPLOYEE OF THE COUNTY WHO WORKS VERY HARD, AND WE'VE NOW SET THEM AGAINST -- THE -- THE BODY OF WORKERS ARE LOOKING UP AND SAYING, I'M TAKING A PAY REDUCTION, THEY'RE TAKING A PAY INCREASE. THE CHALLENGE IS THIS IS INCREDIBLY TECHNICAL, AND, YOU KNOW, WE -- I'M SURE THERE'S GOING TO BE A MILLION INSTANCES OF WHERE INDIVIDUALS HAVE GONE FROM ONE POSITION TO ANOTHER. THERE WAS AN ISSUE REGARDING THE EPC, A POSITION WAS VACATED, THEY REPLACED THE INDIVIDUAL, PUT HIM IN. THAT WAS A 17% INCREASE BECAUSE A PERSON FILLED A POSITION, BUT THEY HAD TO HAVE A FINANCE DIRECTOR. NOW THEY'VE RIFED THAT PERSON, SO I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'VE GOT A FINANCE DIRECTOR OR NOT. WE'VE HAD MANY CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE IPA. I HAD STATED FROM THE BEGINNING I SUPPORTED THE IPA'S OFFICE. I WANTED TO SEE IT EXPANDED. I ALSO STATED THAT I MADE A MISTAKE AND RECOGNIZED THE ONLY WAY IT WOULD WORK IS TO VASTLY INCREASE THE SIZE OF THE IPA OFFICE, LIFT PEOPLE, SPEND MORE MONEY. IT WAS A MISTAKE. NOW WE'RE GOING THE EXACT OPPOSITE DIRECTION, WHICH I THINK IS THE CORRECT WAY TO GO. BUT IN THIS CASE WHAT I WANT TO BE ABLE TO DO, COMMISSIONER FERLITA, WITHOUT SETTING SIX GOOD PEOPLE -- I MEAN TO VILIFYING SIX GOOD PEOPLE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT IN LIGHT OF THE BUDGET WE HAVE, I THINK THE -- TREADING CAREFULLY LEGALLY, IT WAS -- IT WAS -- IT WAS AN ERROR IN JUDGMENT. IT WAS A BAD MOVE, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE GET THERE. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: MAY I RESPOND TO THAT? >>MARK SHARPE: YES, SIR. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: JUST A WORD OF CAUTION TO THE BOARD. WE HAVE A VIABLE, LEGALLY SUFFICIENT PAY IN CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM WITH CIVIL SERVICE AND OUR UNCLASSIFIED-LEVEL EMPLOYEES, LEGALLY SUFFICIENT. MGT CAME IN 2005, AND THEY TOLD US THAT. CORRECTIONS THEY WANTED US TO MAKE TO OUR PLANS, WE MADE THEM. EVERY PROMOTION THAT OCCURS, IT OCCURS BECAUSE THERE IS AN OPERATIONAL NEED FOR AN INDIVIDUAL TO WORK AT THAT LEVEL AND PROVIDE THAT LEVEL OF SERVICE. ALWAYS YOU WILL NEED TO ENSURE THAT AN INCREASE OF SALARY GOES ALONG WITH THAT, OKAY. NOW, WHEN MS. BEAN APPROACHED ME LAST FALL, AUGUST OR SO, IT WAS -- IT WAS TOUGH BECAUSE WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SECOND RIF AND ALREADY HAD COMPLETED THE PREVIOUS YEAR'S RIF. ECONOMIC STRUGGLES FOR AN ORGANIZATION SHOULD DICTATE AND DENOTE TO US THE NEED TO REDUCE RESOURCES. IT SHOULD NOT HAVE US GOING OUT OF THE SCOPE OF OUR LEGALLY SUFFICIENT PAY PLANS. THE NEED TO DO MORE WITH LESS IS GOING TO CONTINUE, BUT WE'VE GOT TO KEEP PROMOTING PEOPLE AND WE'VE GOT TO KEEP IT MARKETABLY COMPETITIVE, EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY. ALL OF OUR CLASSIFICATIONS IN EVERY PAY GRADE HAS BEEN TOUTED AS WHERE IT SHOULD BE TO KEEP US A COMPETITIVE ORGANIZATION IN REGARDS TO HOW WE PAY OUR PEOPLE. >>MARK SHARPE: AND I DISAGREE WITH THAT, BUT -- >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: I UNDERSTAND, SIR. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU. MR. SHARPE, LET ME MAKE SOME COMMENTS TO YOU BASED ON THE COMMENTS YOU MADE. IT IS VERY APPARENT THAT WE HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO NULLIFY THE RAISES. WE CAN'T TAKE A POSITION THAT WOULD DO THAT. WE CAN NOT SUPPORT THE APPOINTMENTS. I WHOLEHEARTEDLY DISAGREE WITH MR. WILLIAMS, AND I'M GOING TO MAKE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS TO HIM, AND I AGREE WITH YOU. WE TALK ABOUT PEOPLE THAT LOSE SOME OF THEIR COWORKERS. THEY'RE GOT GETTING AN INCREASE, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, LESS PEOPLE, MORE WORKLOAD. THEY'RE DOING MORE THINGS. FORGET ABOUT APPOINTMENTS, FORGET ABOUT PROMOTIONS. FORGET ABOUT ALL THAT STUFF. WHAT HAPPENS HERE IS THAT OBVIOUSLY TWO OF THOSE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATORS SHOWED GOOD FAITH BY EVEN OFFERING TO GIVE THE RAISES BACK. WHETHER THE JOB DESCRIPTION SAYS YOU'VE GOT TO DO "A," "B," OR "C" -- AND "C" OR WHETHER I DECIDE BECAUSE EVERYBODY ELSE IS STRUGGLING THAT I WANT TO DO "A," "B," OR "C," NOBODY'S GOING TO CONVINCE ME, NOBODY HAS TO CONVINCE ME THAT THEY CAN'T DO WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITHOUT THESE APPOINTMENTS AND WITHOUT THESE RAISES, BUT AGAIN, TO MY FIRST COMMENT. WE HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO NULLIFY THE RAISES. I JUST THINK -- AND EVEN IF YOU'RE A NAVY GUY, LET ME JUST TELL YOU, IF THESE PEOPLE ARE GOOD SOLDIERS, THEY WILL DO WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO JUST TO SHOW LEADERSHIP AND COMPASSION TO THE REST OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT GETTING PROMOTED, THAT ARE NOT GETTING RAISES, AND YOU KNOW, MR. WILLIAMS, IN GOOD TIMES I AGREE WITH YOU, BUT TODAY I DON'T ONLY DISAGREE WITH YOU, I SO STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH YOU THAT I CAN HARDLY STAND IT. IN GOOD TIMES -- IF YOU HAVE A BUSINESS AND YOU THINK, OKAY, LET'S LOOK AT OUR BOTTOM LINE, WE'RE NOT DOING THE GROSS PROFIT WE NEED, WE HAVE TO ELIMINATE SOME POSITIONS. WE DO. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: CORRECT. >>ROSE FERLITA: WE SAVE A CHUNK OF MONEY. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: CORRECT. >>ROSE FERLITA: THERE ARE OTHER -- TWO OTHER EMPLOYEES THAT MAYBE WE COULD GIVE BONUSES TO OR RAISES TO AND SAY, HEY, EMPLOYEES "B" AND "C," "A" AND "B" ARE GONE, BUT DO US A FAVOR, TAKE OVER THESE RESPONSIBILITIES AND I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU SOME RAISES. THAT MAKES GOOD BUSINESS SENSE, BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE NOT IN A BUSINESS MODE IN AN ECONOMY THAT IS WONDERFUL. IT IS AN ECONOMY THAT IS DOWNTURNED, AND YOU KNOW WHAT, PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR THE JUSTIFICATION ABOUT WHY THEY SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN RAISES. PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR HOW WE SAVED MONEY BY WHOEVER SHE ELIMINATED AND WHAT DOLLARS SHE SAVED. PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW ABOUT WHY ARE WE GIVING PEOPLE RAISES? IT'S NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU SAVED BUT HOW MUCH YOU SPENT AND HOW MUCH THOSE SIX PEOPLE GOT WHEN I DIDN'T WHEN I'M LOOKING AT FORECLOSURE, WHEN I'M LOOKING AT A PAY DECREASE, WHEN I'M LOOKING AT LOSING BENEFITS, WORRYING ABOUT INSURANCE, WONDERING WHERE I'M GOING TO GO NEXT WEEK. THE SEASON, THE TIMING IS NOT GOOD FOR THAT, SO ULTIMATELY, BASED ON WHAT I SAID AND WHAT PAT BEAN CAN DO AND CAN'T DO -- CAN AND CAN'T DO AND WHERE WE ARE LIMITED IN TERMS OF THE CHARTER, IT IS WHAT IT IS, BUT I DON'T HAVE TO LIKE IT, THE EMPLOYEES DON'T HAVE TO LIKE IT, AND WE CAN'T TELL HER WHAT TO DO, BUT I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, IF WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION YESTERDAY AND I WAS SITTING IN THAT SEAT, WHEN THE LITTLE BIT OF TIME I'VE BEEN HERE COMPARED TO THE REST OF THESE GENTLEMEN -- OR SOME, EXCUSE ME -- THE FIRST THING I EVER HEARD FROM PAT BEAN WAS -- FROM MY ACTIONS, BY WHAT SHE SAID, BY WHAT SHE DID -- SHE WAS THE CHEERLEADER THAT BROUGHT HER EMPLOYEES TOGETHER, WE'RE GOING TO THE BEST COUNTY IN THE NATION. THIS IS NOT LEADERSHIP THAT CONTINUES WITH THIS THEME. THIS IS NOT LEADERSHIP THAT IS NOT BALANCING THE BUDGET ON THE BACKS OF THE LOWER-RANKING EMPLOYEES, SO I CAN'T MAKE HER, BUT IN FAIRNESS TO THE EMPLOYEES, IN FAIRNESS TO ANSWERING THE TAXPAYERS, I CAN'T SUPPORT THIS. I CAN'T SUPPORT THIS, AND IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT SHE CAN AND CAN'T DO BY CHARTER. I CAN HOLD HER ACCOUNTABLE IN TERMS OF LEADERSHIP, IN TERMS OF -- OF BEING THE ADMINISTRATOR, AND IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT SHE CAN DO, IT'S WHAT SHE SHOULD DO, SO WE'LL NEVER AGREE TODAY BECAUSE YOUR LOGIC IS GOOD FOR ANOTHER SEASON, FOR ANOTHER TIME, UNDER DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES, AND EVERYTHING BECOMES INVOLVED IN IT, BUT ULTIMATELY EACH OF US HAVE TO IN OUR HEART OF HEARTS VOTE FOR WHAT WE WANT, HOW WE WANT, NOT BECAUSE OF HER ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATORS -- WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THEIR QUALIFICATIONS BUT IN ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE EMPLOYEES, AND THIS IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO SHOWING THEM SOME COURTESIES. AND MR. NORMAN BROUGHT UP A VERY GOOD POINT. LOOK AT ALL THESE OTHER INCREASES. WELL, I DON'T KNOW THE TECHNICALITIES, AND I'M NOT HERE TO DEBATE IT, I'M JUST HERE TO GIVE YOU AN EDITORIAL OF MY OPINION. SOME OF THOSE WERE CIVIL SERVICE. SOME OF THEM WERE ABOUT THE TIME THAT THIS HAPPENED. SOME OF THEM I BELIEVE OCCURRED A LITTLE BIT EARLIER, BUT AT THIS POINT, THAT'S LIKE ASKING ME TO VOTE ON FIVE DIFFERENT ZONING ISSUES THAT ARE SIMILAR. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED SOMEPLACE ELSE, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN SOME CIVIL SERVICE PROMOTION OR INCREASE. I'M TALKING ABOUT THIS ZONING ISSUE. I'M TALKING ABOUT THIS COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR THAT IS SENDING OUT THE WRONG MESSAGE. SHE'S NOT DOING THE RIGHT THING, BUT I CAN'T STOP HER, SO THAT'S WHY I WOULD HAVE PLEADED YESTERDAY, I PLEADED -- SHE'S OBVIOUSLY THE LAST CHOICE ON THIS, THE LAST DECISION, BUT DEAR GOD, WE -- HOW LONG HAVE WE TALKED ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING OUT THERE? WHAT KIND OF A SIGNAL DOES THIS SEND OUT? AND ALL THOSE OTHER RAISES THAT HE TALKED ABOUT, I DON'T KNOW RIGHT NOW. I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT. THAT'S NOT PART AND PARCEL TO MY CONCERN ABOUT MY ADMINISTRATOR, NOT SOMEBODY WHOSE NAME I DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT TAKES -- THAT LEADS SOME OTHER DEPARTMENT. THERE WERE OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES, THERE WERE OTHER DATES, THERE WERE OTHER JUSTIFICATIONS FOR THAT, AND WERE THERE -- WHEN THEY GAVE THEM THE RAISES, WERE THERE ANY OTHER LOSSES OF BENEFITS OR REDUCTION OF -- OF COMPENSATION TO SOMEBODY ELSE IN THAT ORGANIZATIONAL CHART? I DON'T KNOW THAT, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S NOT GERMANE TO WHAT WE'RE DOING, BUT I THINK ULTIMATELY, THE LONG AND THE SHORT, I MEAN, RENEE, YOU'RE THE ATTORNEY, BUT I SWEAR TO GOD, I THINK THAT I GOT A REAL CRAM COURSE IN LEGAL STUFF. I MEAN, I HAVE LOOKED AT ARTICLE 6, SECTION 1, APPOINTMENTS IN TERMS OF ADVICE, CONSENT, WHAT SHE HAD TO DO. IT'S UP TO HERE NOW. NOW, AS FAR AS FERLITA'S CONCERNED, SHE NEEDS TO EITHER DO WHAT SHE CAN DO OR DO WHAT SHE SHOULD DO, BUT FOR ME, I CAN'T SUPPORT IT JUST BECAUSE ON PRINCIPLE IT SENDS THE WRONG MESSAGE TO OUR COWORKERS, AND I JUST CAN'T DO IT. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM BOARD MEMBERS? OKAY. WHY DON'T WE TAKE UP THE NEXT NONBUDGET ITEM. >>ROSE FERLITA: DO WE NEED TO -- WHERE DO WE GO WITH THIS LATER ON IN TERMS OF A MOTION? WE HAVE A CHOICE, YOU SAID, TO RATIFY, NOT -- RATIFY, NOT RATIFY, RATIFY BACK TO THAT DATE, OR NOT SUPPORT? DO WE DO THAT AT SOME OTHER TIME AS OPPOSED TO A WORKSHOP? >>MARK SHARPE: WE CAN'T TAKE ACTION AT A WORKSHOP, CAN WE? >>ROSE FERLITA: RIGHT. >>RENEE LEE: YOU CAN, COMMISSIONER. IT'S A NOTICED MEETING. I DON'T THINK THE BOARD HAS A POLICY THAT YOU DO NOT TAKE - - >>MARK SHARPE: I WOULD THINK ON SOMETHING AS IMPORTANT AS THIS WE GET IT RIGHT, SO IN DUE DEFERENCE -- BECAUSE I AGREE WITH MANY OF THE POINTS THAT -- COMMISSIONER FERLITA, THAT YOU MADE, AND I THINK AGAIN IT GOES BACK TO -- I MEAN, THIS IS A MANAGEMENT DECISION. THIS IS A MANAGEMENT DECISION, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WEIGH THAT, BUT WE'RE ALSO GOING TO HAVE TO WEIGH I THINK CAREFULLY -- ARE WE TALKING NOW THE TWO EMPLOYEES OR ALL SIX? >>RENEE LEE: TWO. >>MARK SHARPE: TWO. SO I WOULD LIKE -- I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO - - TO WEIGH WHAT I'VE HEARD, TO TALK WITH THE ATTORNEY, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION THAT WE NEED SO WE DON'T COMPOUND A PROBLEM. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>MARK SHARPE: I KNOW WHERE I'M GOING, I KNOW WHERE I'M ULTIMATELY GOING. >>ROSE FERLITA: COMMISSIONER SHARPE, WAIT. YOU'RE BEING VERY COURTEOUS TO ME, AND I'M OKAY WITH EVERYTHING YOU'RE DOING. YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE WHETHER WE DISCUSS IT TODAY OR WE DISCUSS IT NEXT WEEK -- >>MARK SHARPE: OH, I'M WITH YOU. >>ROSE FERLITA: NO, BUT WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. WE CAN TAKE A STAND, WE CAN TAKE A POSITION ON PRINCIPLE -- I'M HOPING SHE DOES THE SAME, BUT SHORT OF THAT, WE CAN TAKE AS LONG AS YOU WANT TO TO BELABOR IT AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU GET BRIEFED AND BRIEFED AND BRIEFED AGAIN, BUT THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO EXCEPT STAND ON OUR PRINCIPLE THAT SAYS EITHER YES OR NO, DON'T SUPPORT IT BECAUSE, SO I'M PERFECTLY OKAY WITH DELAYING IT AS LONG AS YOU WANT. THE PUBLIC KNOWS WHERE I AM, AND THAT'S ALL I CARE ABOUT BECAUSE [INDISCERNIBLE CROSS TALK] >>MARK SHARPE: WELL, WHAT ACTION WOULD YOU RECOMMEND? >>ROSE FERLITA: NO, IT'S FINE. >>MARK SHARPE: I MEAN, I'M NOT CHALLENGING YOU, I'M JUST SAYING -- >>ROSE FERLITA: NO, NO, AND YOU'RE NOT AT ALL CHALLENGING. I'M JUST SAYING I DON'T CONSIDER IT A CHALLENGE, OTHERWISE I WOULD BE CHALLENGING BACK. THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO. >>MARK SHARPE: I KNOW. >>ROSE FERLITA: SO WE CAN DO THIS ANYTIME YOU WANT TO. THE SCENARIO'S THE SAME, THE ADVICE AND CONSENT IS THE SAME, THE ARTICLE 6, SECTION 1 IS THE SAME, AND THE CHARTER IS THE SAME. WHENEVER YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE IN BRINGING THIS TO THE SURFACE, I DON'T HAVE TO GO HOME AND STUDY ANYTHING ANYMORE. I'VE ALREADY SAID WHAT I HAVE TO DO, AND I HOPE THE PUBLIC -- [INDISCERNIBLE CROSS TALK] >>MARK SHARPE: WE DISCUSSED YESTERDAY THE POSSIBILITY OF A MOTION THAT WOULD BE A MOTION OF -- >>RENEE LEE: IT'S A MOTION TO REQUEST, COMMISSIONER, AND I DON'T -- I THINK THAT MOTION WAS DELAYED UNTIL TODAY. IT WAS JUST A MOTION TO REQUEST THAT THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR RESCIND THE RAISES. >>ROSE FERLITA: SO, MR. SHARPE, YOU DON'T -- THE OUTCOME WOULD BE TO DON'T RUSH TO JUDGMENT ON ANYBODY'S BEHALF. >>MARK SHARPE: NO, I'M FINE. NO, I'M FINE. >>ROSE FERLITA: YOU CAN DO IT WHEN YOU'RE COMFORTABLE. BRING IT UP OR -- >>MARK SHARPE: I'M READY TO MAKE A MOTION. >>ROSE FERLITA: OH, WELL THEN GO AHEAD. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I'M NOT SURE IF WE'RE GOING TO GET TO A MOTION TODAY, BUT BEFORE WE ACTUALLY DO THAT, I GUESS WE'RE GOING TO BRING THIS UP AGAIN. IF -- I WOULD JUST DIRECT TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IF SHE COULD PROVIDE US SOME TYPE OF A MEMORANDUM OF OUR OPTIONS AND WHAT THE -- WHAT WOULD BE THE RESULT OF THOSE OPTIONS AS FAR AS HOW THINGS WOULD -- WHAT IMPACT THEY WOULD HAVE ON SALARIES, POSITIONS, AND THINGS LIKE THAT SO THAT WE'RE TOTALLY CLEAR AGAIN WHAT OUR OPTIONS ARE AND WHAT THE RAMIFICATIONS ARE OF THE DECISIONS THAT WE MAKE. THAT'S THE ONLY THING I WOULD ASK. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE GOING WITH A MOTION TODAY OR NOT, COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: I THINK, MR. SHARPE OR COLLEAGUES, IF YOU WOULD CONSIDER WHAT MR. BECKNER JUST SAID, I THINK THAT'S GOOD SO EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN HAVING A PRETTY HEATED DISCUSSION. IT WON'T MATTER. THE OUTCOME WILL BE THE SAME. SHE CAN DO IT OR SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO DO IT, SO WHY DON'T WE -- WE GO WITH THAT, LET HER COME BACK WITH SOME EXPLANATIONS. WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO MS. LEE, ALTHOUGH, MS. LEE, I DON'T NEED TO TALK TO YOU, BUT EVERYBODY ELSE CAN GET SOME BETTER CLARIFICATION, AND THEN WE CAN HAVE A MOTION THAT'S CRYSTAL CLEAR WHEN IT COMES BACK SO THAT OUR TAXPAYERS KNOW EXACTLY WHERE I AM, YOU ARE, ANYBODY ELSE IS. >>KEVIN BECKNER: AND I WOULD JUST ASK -- I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT. I WOULD JUST ASK IF YOU COULD PROVIDE A WRITTEN MEMORANDUM TO THAT SO, AGAIN, WE COULD HAVE PERHAPS SOME TIME TO REVIEW IT BEFORE WE COME BACK WHENEVER WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THIS UP AGAIN, SO AGAIN, BECAUSE WHEN WE'RE EXCHANGING WORDS BACK AND FORTH, JUST AGAIN SO WE COULD HAVE SOME TIME TO REVIEW IT. >>RENEE LEE: YES. MAY I TRY TO CLARIFY WHAT YOUR MOTION IS, COMMISSIONER? AND -- AND I THINK WE WILL PROBABLY END UP BACK WHERE COMMISSIONER FERLITA IS, THAT YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE SALARY, YOU'RE LIMITED TO THE ADVICE AND CONSENT OF THE APPOINTMENTS. >>MARK SHARPE: RIGHT. >>RENEE LEE: AND IF -- IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE PEOPLE SERVING IN THOSE, THEN YOU CERTAINLY CAN APPROVE THE APPOINTMENTS TODAY AND REQUEST THAT THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR ADDRESS THE SALARY ISSUE. >>KEVIN BECKNER: I GUESS THE ONLY THING THAT I'M ASKING FOR IS I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT ARE THE RAMIFICATIONS OF WHAT WE DECIDE TO DO. I WANT TO KNOW THAT IF I -- WHAT MY OPTIONS ARE, AND I THINK I KNOW WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE, BUT I WANT TO KNOW AGAIN SO I CAN HAVE SOME TIME TO THINK ABOUT THEM AND ALSO ASK ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, WHAT THE BOARD OPTIONS ARE AND WHAT THE RAMIFICATIONS ARE IF WE SELECT THAT PARTICULAR OPTION, BECAUSE I THOUGHT I HEARD THREE DIFFERENT OPTIONS THAT WE HAD. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE BEFORE WE MAKE A DECISION THAT WE'RE ALL CLEAR ABOUT, AGAIN, THE RAMIFICATIONS OF WHAT OUR DECISIONS ARE. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. SO, THEN, MS. LEE, JUST TO SUMMARIZE IT AND WRAP IT UP, SOMEBODY COULD MAKE A MOTION THAT SAID I'M NOT GOING TO SUPPORT THIS, THE APPOINTMENTS? >>RENEE LEE: THAT'S CORRECT. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. AND IF THAT DIED, THEN SOMEBODY ELSE COULD SAY WE WANT TO RATIFY IT, AND THEN THE THIRD ONE WOULD BE TO RATIFY IT BACK TO THE DATE WHEN IT WAS FIRST INTRODUCED? >>RENEE LEE: TO RATIFY IT WOULD TAKE IT BACK TO THE INITIAL DATE OF -- OF THE MEMO OR THE APPOINTMENT IN NOVEMBER OF '08. >>ROSE FERLITA: SO, THEN, FOR CLARIFICATION SO WE DON'T HAVE TO BELABOR IT THEN LATER ON -- I THINK YOU'VE ANSWERED SOME OF THE RESEARCH WE ASKED -- ARE YOU SAYING THOSE ARE THE ONLY THREE CHOICES NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE TALK TO YOU? >>RENEE LEE: YES, COMMISSIONER. >>ROSE FERLITA: THEN CAN WE TAKE ACTION TODAY? >>RENEE LEE: YES, I BELIEVE -- >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. THEN GUYS, EXCUSE ME FOR BACKTRACKING HERE, BUT BASED ON MY DISCUSSION, MY ARGUMENTS, MY REASONS, I WOULD MAKE A MOTION -- WHETHER IT'S PASSED OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW -- BUT I WILL MAKE A MOTION THAT BASED ON THE INFORMATION THAT WE RECEIVED TODAY AND BACK TO THE TIME THAT THIS WAS ORIGINALLY PRESENTED, IN MY HEART I FEEL THAT THE INFORMATION WAS NOT PROVIDED WHEN I WAS ASKED TO MAKE THESE APPOINTMENTS, AND BECAUSE I BELIEVE THEN THAT THESE APPOINTMENTS, INCLUDING THE COMPENSATION WERE NOT EFFECTIVE, I MAKE A MOTION NOT TO SUPPORT THE APPOINTMENTS. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>MARK SHARPE: SECOND. >>KEN HAGAN: WE HAVE A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SHARPE. DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THE MOTION? COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: THAT'S A LENGTHY MOTION. I WAS LISTENING, BUT JUST CLARIFY. >>ROSE FERLITA: I'LL SUMMARIZE IT. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: OKAY. >>ROSE FERLITA: WE HAVE A CHOICE TO RATIFY IT NOW, TO RATIFY IT BACK TO THE DATE WHEN THERE IS AN ASSUMPTION THAT WE HAD GOTTEN ALL OF THE INFORMATION THAT IS STATED IN THE ADVICE AND CONSENT, ARTICLE 6, SECTION 1. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT WAS DONE AND DONE ADEQUATELY IN EVERY ONE OF THOSE SIX SUBCATEGORIES, SO MY ONLY OPTION IS NOT TO SUPPORT THE APPOINTMENTS, SO THAT'S -- THAT'S MY MOTION. >>KEN HAGAN: IT'S NOT TO SUPPORT THE APPOINTMENTS. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: EVEN THOUGH WE'VE GOT THE BACKUP INFORMATION NOW. I WILL SUPPORT THE APPOINTMENTS BUT NOT THE PAY RAISES. >>ROSE FERLITA: WE CAN'T DO THAT. THAT'S THE PROBLEM, MR. HIGGINBOTHAM. WE CAN'T. THOSE ARE YOUR CHOICES, SUPPORT IT NOW, SUPPORT IT THEN, OR DON'T SUPPORT IT. THAT'S IT. >>KEN HAGAN: ANY OTHER COMMENTS? COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: DOES THAT HAVE ANY IMPACT? IF WE TAKE BACK THE APPOINTMENTS FROM THEN, IT DOES NOT IMPACT AS FAR AS THEM HAVING TO REPAY ANY BACK SALARY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? OR -- >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: COMMISSIONER -- PERMISSION, SIR. IF THEIR APPOINTMENT IS RESCINDED, YOU ESSENTIALLY LEAVE TWO VACANT -- ADMINISTRATOR POSITIONS VACANT BECAUSE THEY ARE DIRECTORS OF DEPARTMENTS AS WELL AS SENIOR LEADERS. THE RESCISSION OF THE APPOINTMENT THEN LEAVES TWO VACANT ADMINISTRATIVE POSITIONS. WITHOUT FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINES OF OUR PROMOTIONAL STRUCTURE IN THIS ORGANIZATION OF NOT PROVIDING AN INCREASE, WHICH IS WHAT WE ALWAYS DO, OKAY, YOU PUT US IN A POSITION THAT THEY CAN BE -- THEY CAN'T BE TOLD TO DO ADDITIONAL FUNCTIONS AT A HIGHER LEVEL AT THEIR CURRENT- LEVEL PAY. >>KEVIN BECKNER: AND SO THAT BRINGS -- IF THE APPOINTMENTS ARE RESCINDED, THEN, THAT BRINGS US BACK TO -- THAT WOULD PLACE THEM BACK -- OR THE ADMINISTRATOR THEN DETERMINES, THEN -- IT WOULD GO BACK TO YOU TO DETERMINE WHAT THEIR SALARY LEVELS THEN WOULD BE? >>PAT BEAN: NO, THEY WOULD JUST GO BACK TO THE SALARY THEY WERE MAKING AT THE TIME THAT THEY WERE IN THE DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR POSITION, WHICH THEY WOULD REASSUME. THEY'VE NEVER LEFT IT. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: CORRECT. >>PAT BEAN: BUT THEY TOOK ON THOSE'S ADDITIONAL FUNCTIONS. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: CORRECT. >>PAT BEAN: THEN I HAVE TWO VACANCIES THAT I WOULD THEN ASK THE HR DEPARTMENT TO IMMEDIATELY START RECRUITING, AND I WOULD GO OUT AND SEE IF I COULD FIND TWO PEOPLE TO BRING IN TO FILL THOSE POSITIONS. THAT'S WHERE I AM. >>KEVIN BECKNER: AND THEN WOULD WE HAVE TO APPROVE THOSE POSITIONS THEN? >>PAT BEAN: YOU WOULD HAVE TO APPROVE THE APPOINTMENT -- THE SAME CONSENT THAT IS TALKED ABOUT HERE ON THESE TWO PEOPLE. >>KEVIN BECKNER: OKAY. THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: JUST LIKE OTHER DEPARTMENTS, MS. BEAN, YOU MEAN TO TELL ME IF THESE APPOINTMENTS WERE NOT CONFIRMED TODAY AND THEY GO BACK TO DOING WHAT THEY'RE DOING, THEY CAN'T OR WON'T OR HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO STILL DO SOME OF THESE FUNCTIONS THAT THEY'RE DOING? THEY CAN'T DO IT. >>PAT BEAN: I CAN ONLY TELL YOU THAT I CANNOT MAKE THEM. >>ROSE FERLITA: CAN'T MAKE THEM. WE CAN'T MAKE A LOT OF PEOPLE DO A LOT OF THINGS, BUT IN THIS DOWNTURN, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS YOU CAN'T MAKE THEM, BUT THEY COULD IF THEY WANTED TO? >>PAT BEAN: THEY COULD IF THEY WANTED TO, BUT -- >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: I WOULD LIKE TO ARGUE THAT THEY COULD NOT. >>ROSE FERLITA: AND MR. WILLIAMS, YOU'RE SAYING TO ME, SIR, I'M PUTTING YOU IN A PREDICAMENT. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. YOU ALL ARE PUTTING US IN A PREDICAMENT. SHE CAN'T MAKE THEM DO THAT IF THAT'S NOT THEIR JOB DESCRIPTION, BUT I KNOW SOME OF WHAT I THINK IS THE INTEGRITY OF SOME OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS, AND THEY PROBABLY WOULD DO THAT AT LEAST FOR THE SHORT-TERM, AND MAYBE LATER ON WE COULD WEIGH WHAT THEY HAVE DONE AND -- >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: WE WOULDN'T PERMIT THAT TO HAPPEN. >>ROSE FERLITA: YOU WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM TO DO EXTRA WORK? >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: THAT'S CORRECT. >>ROSE FERLITA: OH, MY GOD. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: [INDISCERNIBLE CROSS TALK] >>ROSE FERLITA: SO THAT MEANS THAT ANYBODY -- >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: THAT GOES OUT OF THE SCOPE OF THEIR CLASSIFICATION, OKAY. >>ROSE FERLITA: SO YOU MEAN TO TELL ME IF ANYBODY NOW BECAUSE WE HAVE DOWNSIZED OUR POSITIONS IN ANY CATEGORY OR LEVEL, THAT IF THEY DO ANYTHING THAT'S NOT IN THEIR JOB DESCRIPTION -- >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: THEY'RE WORKING OUT OF CLASS. THAT IS CORRECT. >>ROSE FERLITA: EVERYBODY'S DOING THAT. EVERYBODY'S DOING THAT. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: THAT IS CORRECT. AND WE NEED TO CORRECT IT WHERE IT'S HAPPENING, BUT THAT SHOULDN'T BE THE ORDER OF THE DAY. >>ROSE FERLITA: IT'S NOT THE ORDER OF THE DAY, IT'S THE PROBLEM OF THE BUDGET SEASON, SIR, AND THE PROBLEM IS THAT IF SOMEBODY'S WILLING TO DO THIS OUT OF WILLINGNESS, OUT OF COMMITMENT TO THIS COUNTY -- >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: WE CANNOT PERMIT THAT. >>ROSE FERLITA: BUT NOBODY GOES TO JAIL IF THEY DO IT. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: WELL, I WOULD ASK MS. BEAN TO MAKE SURE THAT HER LEADERSHIP ISN'T ALLOWING PEOPLE TO WORK OUT OF CLASS. >>ROSE FERLITA: SIR, IF OUR LEADERSHIP WAS SHOWING LEADERSHIP, WE WOULDN'T BE IN THIS PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: I WAS JUST WONDERING, IF THAT WAS THE CASE, THEN CAN WE THEN APPOINT THIS BOARD OR WOULD IT BE UP TO THE ADMINISTRATOR AT THAT POINT IN TIME -- IF WE VOTE TO RESCIND THE NEW APPOINTMENTS, CAN THEY BE APPOINTED IN AN INTERIM POSITION TO GO AHEAD AND ASSUME THE RESPONSIBILITY, AND IF THEY ARE IN AN INTERIM POSITION, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PAY CLASSIFICATION AT THAT POINT IN TIME? >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: ACTING IN AN INTERIM CAPACITY, THEY ARE SUBJECT TO A PAY INCREASE, EVEN AS AN ACTING -- IN AN ACTING CAPACITY, AND LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, ALL THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS HOW WE HAVE TO LEGALLY, SUFFICIENTLY ALLOW PEOPLE TO WORK WHERE THEY OUGHT TO BE BASED ON OUR CIVIL SERVICE PROCESS AND OUR UNCLASSIFIED PROCESS. >>KEVIN WHITE: AND WOULD THAT STILL BE OUR DECISION OR WOULD THAT BE THE ADMINISTRATOR'S POSITION IF WE -- IF WE VOTED THIS DOWN, WOULD IT BE THE ADMINISTRATOR'S POSITION TO -- >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: I WOULD HAVE TO ASK THE COUNTY ATTORNEY ON THAT. >>KEVIN WHITE: -- TO APPOINT AN INTERIM? >>RENEE LEE: I APOLOGIZE, COMMISSIONER. >>KEVIN WHITE: IF WE VOTED THE POSITIONS DOWN, WHOSE AUTHORITY WOULD IT BE TO APPOINT THE INTERIM IF THERE IS AN INTERIM, WOULD THAT BE THE ADMINISTRATOR? >>RENEE LEE: IT WOULD BE THE ADMINISTRATOR. >>KEVIN WHITE: OKAY. AND IF -- I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD GIVE THE BOARD MEMBERS ANYMORE COMFORT AS FAR AS NOW MAYBE WE WOULD HAVE MORE TIME TO RESOLVE THE SITUATION OR ANY OF THE ISSUES RATHER THAN VOTING IT UP OR DOWN -- WE CAN STILL VOTE IT DOWN IF THAT'S THE MAJORITY OR THE WILL OF THIS BOARD, AND THEN MS. BEAN COULD -- RATHER THAN IMMEDIATELY RUNNING OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS BUDGET CYCLE TRYING TO ADVERTISE AND RECRUIT TWO NEW PEOPLE FOR THIS POSITION, COULD AUTOMATICALLY UNDER HER LEADERSHIP GO AHEAD AND PROMOTE THESE -- NOT PROMOTE BUT APPOINT THESE TWO PEOPLE AS THE INTERIM -- >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: ACTING CAPACITY. >>KEVIN WHITE: -- ACTING DIRECTORS IN THESE DEPARTMENTS, ASSUMING THE ADDITIONAL CAPACITIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES AND NOT WORKED OUT OF CLASS THAT YOU AS THE HR DIRECTOR WOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT? >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: THAT IS CORRECT, SIR. >>KEVIN WHITE: AND THEN AT THAT POINT IN TIME, THAT WOULD GIVE THIS BOARD MORE TIME TO BE ABLE TO DIGEST ALL THE INFORMATION THAT COMMISSIONER NORMAN IS LOOKING FOR AND SOME OF THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS ARE LOOKING FOR AND ALSO GIVE OUR COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR MORE TIME TO EVALUATE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT -- THAT SHE'S LOOKING AT. IS THAT A -- IN YOUR ESTIMATION, IS THAT A -- NOT ONLY A VIABLE BUT A -- A LEGALLY SAFE GROUND TO BE ON? >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: IT'S VIABLE AND LEGAL AS LONG AS ASSOCIATED WITH THE INTERIM ASSOCIATION IS THE INCREASE FOR DOING THE WORK AS A TEAM ADMINISTRATOR UNDER THE -- AND BEING PART OF THE EXECUTIVE TEAM OF MS. BEAN. >>KEVIN WHITE: THANK YOU. I DON'T -- >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: THIS IS PROBABLY NOT A GOOD TIME TO BRING UP A QUESTION ABOUT MY OFFICE VIEW AND PARKING, BUT WE -- WE'LL PASS ON THAT FOR NOW. I'M GOING TO SUGGEST -- BECAUSE THERE'S OBVIOUSLY AN IMPASSE AND THERE'S A LOT OF FEELINGS ON THIS -- THAT WE TABLE THIS AND THAT SOME WEEKS AGO I HAD FLAGGED SEVERAL OF OUR DEPARTMENTS, CIVIL SERVICE, HUMAN RESOURCES, AND HIPAA, AND THIS JUST HIGHLIGHTS THE PROBLEMS THAT THE PUBLIC FEELS, AND IT'S NOT TO ELIMINATE BUT TO FIND WAYS TO STREAMLINE AND -- AND MAKE THESE MORE EFFICIENT AND BRING THEM INTO A REALISTIC 2009 BUDGET APPROACH, SO I'M GOING TO SUGGEST THAT WE TABLE THIS FOR RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WE ARE AT AN IMPASSE. WE'VE GOT A LOT -- I'M HAPPY TO STAY HERE ALL NIGHT, AND I'M PREPARED TO DO THAT, BUT WE MAY WANT TO MOVE ON, AND THIS WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE TIME TO DISCUSS HOW WE RE- CREATE THROUGH THE BUDGET PROCESSES HUMAN RESOURCES AND CIVIL SERVICE AND HIPAA. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: LET ME SAY A COUPLE THINGS. THE RELEVANCE OF THIS IS THERE IS -- IS ABOUT MR. WILLIAMSON -- THERE'S A CIVIL SERVICE STRUCTURE THAT'S BEEN AROUND PROBABLY SINCE 1900 AROUND HERE THAT'S A STRUCTURE OF EMPLOYEES AND WHAT HE JUST SAID, AND HE'S LEGALLY BOUND TO THIS. I MEAN, IF WE WANT TO BREAK DOWN THAT STRUCTURE AND -- THAT'S -- THAT'S WHAT WE'VE GOT TO DO TO CHANGE WHAT -- THE RELEVANCE OF ALL THESE RAISES AND POSITIONS AND EVERY TIME SOMEBODY GOT PROMOTED, THEY GOT INCREASES GOES BACK -- YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE HAVE BEEN HERE A YEAR, TWO YEARS, THREE YEARS. IT'S HAPPENED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE ORGANIZATION, AND IT'S STILL HAPPENING PROBABLY TODAY. AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S REALLY IRONIC IS WE TALK ABOUT -- WE CALL IN THE LEADERSHIP AND WE CALL INTO ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF. THE PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR US, THREE MONTHS AGO SOMEBODY -- PEOPLE MADE A -- A MOTION ON THE FLOOR TO RAISE AN EMPLOYEE THAT WORKS FOR US BY 17.5%. I MEAN, WHEN YOU CALL IN THE LEADERSHIP AND YOU CALL IN THIS STUFF, IT SOUNDS LIKE POLITICS TO ME. I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT A STRUCTURE THAT WE'VE LIVED UNDER. IT'S A STRUCTURE THAT WE ALL APPROVE EVERY YEAR. I DON'T LIKE THIS -- THE SITUATION THAT WE'RE IN, BUT GO BACK AND PULL THE MINUTES AND THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE'VE HAD. THEY'RE HERE. THE NAMES ARE HERE. YOU-ALL TALKED ABOUT IT. AND THEN YOU ACT LIKE YOU NEVER SAW IT. MY POINT IS THIS IS A COUNTY STRUCTURE. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, BREAK DOWN THAT SYSTEM AND REBUILD IT. YOU CAN'T DO IT TODAY ON THE BACKS OF TWO PEOPLE, AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT $15-, $20,000, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 3.8 BILLION. PEOPLE THAT'S HELD US TO A AAA BOND RATING FOR THE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS WHICH SAVED US MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, THAT WERE HELD BACK ON PROMOTIONAL POSITIONS -- I DON'T AGREE WITH -- HONESTLY, I DON'T LINE UP WITH -- WITH THESE -- SOME OF THESE CRAZY SALARIES AND WHAT'S -- IT'S BIG, AND PEOPLE ARE -- ARE SHOCKED BY IT. I MEAN, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE SHOCK BENEFITS AND THE SHOCK STUFF. IT'S BAD. BUT THE POINT IS YOU CAN'T HOLD THESE TWO PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING THAT ARE REALLY -- THAT YOU-ALL HAVE DEALT WITH ON A DAILY BASIS THAT ARE GREAT EMPLOYEES. MIKE MERRILL? OUR BOND COUNSEL WHO WORKED US THROUGH REFINANCING MULTIPLE THINGS, THAT BROUGHT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS BACK TO THIS. WE BUILT ROADS CHEAPER. MY POINT IS IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT, IT'S THE SEVEN THAT SITS HERE. WE'RE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE. AND IT'S BREAKING DOWN THAT SYSTEM OF RECLASSIFYING PEOPLE, BEING ABLE TO SAY, OKAY, FREEZE ALL PROMOTIONS IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT. EVERYTHING THAT YOU GIVE A DIME TO, FREEZE THE PROMOTIONS. SEE IF ANYBODY WILL WORK UP AND TRY TO STRIVE TO GREATER -- GREATER HEIGHTS THROUGH EDUCATION, THROUGH THINGS LIKE THAT. THEY WON'T. THERE IS A -- YOU KNOW, I DON'T BUY INTO A SOCIALIST SYSTEM THAT SOMEBODY OUGHT NOT TO TRY TO ACHIEVE BETTER AND HIGHER OR WHATEVER. MAYBE IT'S NOT HERE. I JUST BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE TWO GOOD PEOPLE HERE, AND WE'RE GOING TO DEPEND ON THEM FOR THE NEXT END OF THIS YEAR, AND I WANT THEIR 100% DEVOTION TO THIS ORGANIZATION, AND THEIR LEADERS ARE BACKING THEM, AND -- AND THEY -- YOU KNOW, THEY -- WHAT THEY DID WAS THEY WORKED FOR A POSITION, THEY WORKED FOR AN INCREASE. SOME OF US NEW CLEARLY THERE WAS AN AMOUNT THERE, AND YOU SHOULDN'T THROW THAT ALL ON THE BACK OF THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS. WE'RE NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER SIX. SO I WOULD MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE -- SUBSTITUTE MOTION WE APPROVE THESE TWO. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU. MR. NORMAN, YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR ME, SO PLEASE NOT EVEN FOR ONE MINUTE SAY THAT I'M PUTTING IT ON THE BACKS OF THESE TWO GENTLEMEN. YOU'RE WRONG AND YOU WEREN'T LISTENING TO WHAT I WAS SAYING. >>JIM NORMAN: [INAUDIBLE] >>ROSE FERLITA: WELL, YOU DIDN'T LISTEN CLEARLY THEN. >>JIM NORMAN: [INAUDIBLE] >>ROSE FERLITA: NO, YOU DID NOT SIR. I TALKED ABOUT THE DECISION-MAKING AUTHORITY OF THE ADMINISTRATOR, NOT THEM. I REALIZE WHAT MIKE MERRILL DOES, I REALIZE WHAT ERIC JOHNSON DOES. IT'S JUST THAT WE HAVE TO REALIZE WHAT THE ADMINISTRATOR IS DOING TOO. AND THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS AND OTHER AREAS SHE PERHAPS COULD COME UP, COULD HAVE COME UP EVEN TODAY WITH SAVING THE BALANCING DOLLARS THAT WOULD JUSTIFY THAT. I MEAN, WE'RE GOING TO TALK LATER ABOUT THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATORS. ONE OF MY QUESTIONS WAS THAT WHEN I LOOKED AT THE ORGANIZATIONAL CHARTS AND THE DECISION UNIT PACKAGES, THERE WASN'T ONE PROVIDED FOR THE ADMINISTRATOR -- FOR THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR'S DEPARTMENT, SO IF I HAD THAT ORGANIZATIONAL CHART, MAYBE I COULD BETTER UNDERSTAND THE CHANGES AND PERHAPS RECOMMEND SOMEPLACE ELSE WHERE SHE COULD CREATE MORE EFFICIENCIES TO COMPENSATE FOR THE 20,000. THE 20,000 IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS IS NOTHING, AND AGAIN, THIS IS NOT TO DIMINISH WHAT THEY DID, IT'S SIMPLY TO DIMINISH WHAT SHE'S NOT TAKING LEADERSHIP FOR. YOU DON'T LIKE THE WORD "LEADERSHIP." I LIKE IT. AND IF YOU'RE SAYING IT'S UP TO US, YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT, AND I THINK WITH THIS NICE, HEALTHY DISCUSSION WE'RE HAVING, WE ARE EXERCISING OUR OWN VERSION OF LEADERSHIP, SO I DISAGREE WITH YOU VERY STRONGLY, AND -- AND I TAKE OFFENSE TO YOU THINKING THAT I'M PUTTING IT ON THEIR BACKS. I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE WHAT THEY DO, BUT I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE IN THIS COUNTY GOVERNMENT DOES AS WELL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>MARK SHARPE: WELL, I'M BACK TO WHERE I WAS AT THE VERY BEGINNING WHICH IS I UNDERSTOOD THE NEED FOR REORGANIZATION, I DID NOT SUPPORT THE PAY INCREASE, AND I'M BEING TOLD THAT TECHNICALLY, ALTHOUGH I STILL DISAGREE, WE COULDN'T ASK PEOPLE TO DO MORE. I MEAN, THE CHALLENGE IS -- AND I THINK COMMISSIONER NORMAN TALKED ABOUT PEOPLE BEING WILLING TO WORK FOR HOURS OR WORK AND DO MORE AND NOT EARN THE PAY FOR IT. THAT'S HAPPENING IN PRIVATE INDUSTRY EVERY DAY. PEOPLE ARE -- PEOPLE ARE TAKING PAY CUTS TO STAY AND WORK, AND THEY'RE HAVING A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING HOW GOVERNMENT OPERATES, WHICH IS -- IN GOVERNMENT WE ASK -- WE ASK PEOPLE TO DO MORE, BUT THEN THERE HAS TO BE -- WE HAD THE CONVERSATION. WE HAVE TO PAY THEM MORE, AND I -- AND MY ARGUMENT HAS BEEN NOT NECESSARILY. THERE MUST BE A WAY -- AND I THINK IF WE LOOKED FAR ENOUGH AHEAD TO SEE WHAT WAS COMING, WE COULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO HAVE REORGANIZED OR TO HAVE ADJUSTED WITHOUT SUBSTANTIAL PAY INCREASES AT A TIME WHEN WE'RE ASKING OTHER PEOPLE TO TAKE PAY CUTS, AND NOW WE'RE AT WHERE -- IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE HEALTH INSURANCE DISCUSSION. IT'S LIKE WE HAVE VERY LITTLE TIME, WE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION. HEALTH INSURANCE WE'RE GETTING READY TO SEE THE PREMIUMS GO UP BECAUSE WE CAN'T SEEM TO MAKE A DECISION, AND HERE WE ARE -- YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THE -- THE NEED TO HAVE PEOPLE TAKING ON THE RESPONSIBILITIES. I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH THE PAY INCREASE. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE GET THERE. GEORGE, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS? >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: WELL, SIR, WE NEED TO SIT DOWN WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND MYSELF AND YOU-ALL AND TALK ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS, TALK ABOUT FEDERAL STATUTE, FLSA. I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO PAY PEOPLE ACCORDING TO THE ORGANIZATION'S PROPENSITY TO PAY, AND SO AS WE LOOK AT ALL KINDS OF THINGS, FEDERAL STATUTES AND EVERYTHING WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE -- I -- I LIKE WHAT COMMISSIONER NORMAN SUGGESTED. WE TAKE A LOOK AT EVERYTHING, OKAY, AND WHAT'S BROKEN, WE NEED TO FIX IT. IF IT'S NOT BROKEN, WE NEED TO LEAVE IT ALONE. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY. THIS HAS TO BE -- THE STRUCTURE HAS TO BE CHANGED. WE EITHER FOLLOW IT OR WE DON'T. >>GEORGE WILLIAMS: THAT'S CORRECT, SIR. >>JIM NORMAN: AND RIGHT NOW, AS THE RESULTS OF OUR ACTIONS -- NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY, AS A RESULT OF OUR ACTIONS, IF WE RESCIND THIS, IT'S ON THE BACKS OF THESE TWO PEOPLE. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. AND IF I JUST MIGHT LEND ONE SUGGESTION. I KNOW THAT WE'RE ALL VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS. OF COURSE WE RECOGNIZE THE VALUE OF THESE INDIVIDUALS AND WHAT THEY DO TO -- FOR US AS WELL AS THIS COUNTY AND ALL OF THE EMPLOYEES. I MIGHT ALSO REMIND YOU THAT WE HAVE ORDERED AN ANALYSIS AND A REVIEW OF OUR ENTIRE PAY STRUCTURE, SO THIS WILL BE COMING BACK TO THE BOARD TO DISCUSS, AND PERHAPS THEN IT MIGHT BE AN APPROPRIATE TIME THAT WE CAN REENGAGE IN THIS CONSERVATION AND THEN TAKE THE APPROPRIATE ACTION. WE'LL HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME FOR ALL OF US -- FOR THE EMOTIONS CAN SETTLE DOWN A LITTLE BIT, WE CAN CONSULT WITH THE ATTORNEYS, AND THEN -- AND AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M CLEAR OF THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THE ACTIONS THAT I TAKE AS A BOARD, SO I MIGHT SUGGEST -- AND AGAIN, I BELIEVE THIS REPORT IS DUE BACK TO US THE FIRST -- FIRST MEETING OR SECOND MEETING IN AUGUST, SO -- AND AGAIN, I KNOW IT'S PASSIONATE, I KNOW IT'S HEATED, BUT I ALSO KNOW THAT WE'VE GOT A BIG, MASSIVE BUDGET ALSO THAT WE'RE WORKING ON, AND AGAIN, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO REVISIT THIS ISSUE AND PERHAPS EVEN MORE -- TALK TO IT MORE FROM A COMPREHENSIVE UNDERSTANDING ONCE WE GET THIS REPORT BACK, AND AGAIN, WE CAN MAKE THE APPROPRIATE DECISION THEN. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: MR. BECKNER -- AND I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ASKED THAT AND HOW YOU ASKED IT, AND WE CERTAINLY HAD SOME CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT, BUT THIS IS THE DILEMMA -- AND I DON'T MEAN TO BE THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE HERE, BUT THESE ARE SOME CONCERNS BECAUSE I KNOW YOU ASKED IT, AND MORE IMPORTANT, THE MORE DATA, THE MORE INFORMATION WE HAVE THE BETTER, BUT AGAIN, IT'S ALL ABOUT WHERE WE ARE, SO IF WE'RE UNDER SCALE, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? DO WE PUMP EVERYBODY UP? NO, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THEN A LOT OF 15% AND 20%. AND IF WE'RE OVER SCALE, I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE STOP AT REDUCING THOSE -- THOSE -- THOSE SALARIES IF SOME OF THOSE SALARIES CAN'T BE REDUCED EXCEPT FROM BY HER. ALL I'M SAYING IS THOSE ARE THINGS I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT IN ANTICIPATION OF WHAT YOU'VE ASKED FOR. I LOOK FORWARD TO IT. IT WOULD BE CURIOUS IN TERMS OF WHERE WE STAND, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE THAT DISCUSSION TOO. AND YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT HEATED. YES, I AM HEATED. I WAS VERY HEATED. I'VE SAID WHAT I HAD TO SAY. I'M COMFORTABLE NOW. SO WE JUST HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT'S BEST AND HOW WE GO FORWARD. I HAD A MOTION ON THE FLOOR. I STILL BELIEVE THAT. I BELIEVE MR. NORMAN HAD A SUBSTITUTE. IF THE REST OF YOU GUYS WANT TO WAIT LONGER, YOU DON'T VOTE HIS DOWN -- I MEAN, YOU VOTE HIS DOWN, YOU VOTE MINE DOWN, END OF STORY. IF ONE OF THOSE IS APPEALING TO YOU, FINE. MAJORITY RULES. THANK YOU. >>KEVIN BECKNER: ALL RIGHT. THEN WHY DON'T WE -- HE'S GOT -- >>MARK SHARPE: HE'S THE CHAIR. >>KEN HAGAN: WAS THERE A SECOND TO COMMISSIONER NORMAN'S SUBSTITUTE MOTION? OKAY. THEN IT FALLS BACK TO THE ORIGINAL MOTION OF COMMISSIONER FERLITA, AND CAN YOU RESTATE THAT MOTION, PLEASE. >>ROSE FERLITA: THE MOTION WAS BASED ON WHEN WE GOT THE INFORMATION AND IN CONJUNCTION WITH WHEN WE WERE ASKED OR SUPPOSEDLY ASKED TO SUPPORT THESE APPOINTMENTS IN NOVEMBER, I -- I -- MY MOTION WAS NOT TO SUPPORT THE APPOINTMENTS. >>KEN HAGAN: MOTION IS NOT TO SUPPORT THE APPOINTMENTS BY COMMISSIONER FERLITA. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? >>MARK SHARPE: I SECONDED. >>KEN HAGAN: BY COMMISSIONER SHARPE. OKAY. NO FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION, PLEASE RECORD YOUR VOTE. >>RECORDING SECRETARY: MOTION CARRIED 5-2, COMMISSIONERS HIGGINBOTHAM AND NORMAN VOTING NO. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. >>ROSE FERLITA: ONE QUESTION I JUST WANT TO ASK MS. LEE. MS. LEE, IF YOU DON'T DO IT NOW, JUST ANSWER THIS FOR ME. UNDER THE ADMINISTRATIVE CODE, CAN I OBJECT TO THE AMOUNT OF THE COMPENSATION AND THEREFORE OBJECT TO THE APPOINTMENTS OR NO, BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF COMPENSATION? >>RENEE LEE: COMMISSIONER, THE COMPENSATION OF THE EMPLOYEES UNDER THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR ARE STRICTLY OUT OF YOUR JURISDICTION. >>ROSE FERLITA: SO THAT BEING SAID, THEN, I COULD NOT MOVE TO START THE LEVEL OF COMPENSATION AT 12%, THE AMOUNT OF THE RAISES. I CAN'T START AT ANYPLACE? >>RENEE LEE: YOU MAY REQUEST THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR DO THAT. YOU MAY SUGGEST SHE COULD DO IT. YOU COULD NOT COMMAND THAT SHE DOES THAT. >>ROSE FERLITA: YEAH, OKAY. SO SUGGESTING TO REDUCE THE LEVEL OF COMPENSATION BY 12% JUST GOES IN THE SAME BASKET AS THE REST OF THE SUGGESTIONS? WE CAN'T TAKE ACTION ON THAT EITHER? >>MARK SHARPE: YOU CAN SUGGEST AS PART OF THE -- >>ROSE FERLITA: I JUST WANTED THAT QUESTION. MAYBE WE CAN TAKE IT UP LATER. THAT'S FINE. >>JIM NORMAN: AM I CORRECT, WE JUST DEMOTED THEM; RIGHT? >>RENEE LEE: I APOLOGIZE. >>JIM NORMAN: WE DIDN'T APPROVE THAT SLOT ANYMORE, SO WE JUST DEMOTED THE TWO INDIVIDUALS? >>RENEE LEE: THE APPOINTMENTS OF -- >>JIM NORMAN: YES. >>RENEE LEE: YES. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>ROSE FERLITA: I JUST WANTED TO ASK ONE MORE QUESTION. ERIC, ANOTHER THING, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE TIME TO FLAG THE BUDGET, BUT WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE ADMINISTRATOR'S BUDGET. CAN YOU TELL ME AT THAT POINT WHEN AND IF WE GET TO THAT SUBCATEGORY WHERE THE RAISES WERE PROVIDED IN THE BUDGET IN TERMS OF A LINE ITEM? >>ERIC JOHNSON: WELL, COMMISSIONER, WHEN WE DEVELOPED THE BUDGET, AT THAT POINT WE BELIEVED THAT THE RAISES WERE IN PLACE, SO WE DO A CONTINUATION LEVEL COSTING OF ALL POSITIONS, SO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR'S BUDGET WOULD INCLUDE THE CURRENT SALARIES FOR ALL STAFF IN THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR'S OFFICE. SINCE THERE WAS NO INCREASE NEXT YEAR, IT WOULD BE CONTINUING AT THE CURRENT YEAR'S RATE MINUS THE ADJUSTMENTS THAT WE'VE MADE FOR THE FURLOUGH SAVINGS AND ANY OTHER ADJUSTMENTS THAT WE'VE MADE ACROSS THE BOARD. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. SO I'M TAKING THAT AS AN ANSWER YES TO THE RAISES WERE PROVIDED IN THE BUDGET, AND YOU CAN PROBABLY SHOW ME WHERE IT WAS FACTORED IN. >>ERIC JOHNSON: IN THE FISCAL '10 BUDGET? YES. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>ROSE FERLITA: NOT IN THE OTHER ONE, NOT IN THE PREVIOUS? >>ERIC JOHNSON: WELL, THE PREVIOUS ONE STILL HAD THE SALARY OF AN ASSISTANT COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR WHO HAD NOT YET DEPARTED AT THE TIME THE BOARD HAD ADOPTED THE BUDGET, SO - - >>ROSE FERLITA: RIGHT. SO THE ONE THAT WE HAD PRIOR TO THIS ONE DID NOT -- AND I'LL GET TO THAT LATER, BUT I NEEDED A YES OR NO ON THAT. SO YES ON THE '10, BUT IT OBVIOUSLY WAS NOT REFLECTED IN THE '09? >>PAT BEAN: THE MONEY WAS IN THERE. >>ERIC JOHNSON: THE MONEY FOR THE ASSISTANT COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR POSITION WHICH WAS DELETED WAS STILL IN THE BUDGET THAT WAS ADOPTED IN SEPTEMBER, LAST SEPTEMBER. >>ROSE FERLITA: AT THE OLD RATE? >>ERIC JOHNSON: AT THE OLD RATE. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. YOU'RE SAYING YES, YOU'RE SAYING NO. SO DO I GET TO PICK? >>PAT BEAN: IT WAS AT THE RATE OF THE ADMINISTRATOR WHO IS NO LONGER HERE. >>ERIC JOHNSON: IT WAS AT THE RATE OF THE ADMINISTRATOR AS WAS THE SALARY FOR THAT ADMINISTRATOR'S ASSISTANT. THOSE POSITIONS HAVE BEEN SUBSEQUENTLY DELETED OUT OF THE CIVIL SERVICE SYSTEM. THE DOLLARS WERE THERE, BUT THE POSITIONS ARE GONE. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. I'M SURE THAT AT A LATER TIME, I'LL HAVE SOME MORE QUESTIONS. THANK YOU FOR INPUT. >>ERIC JOHNSON: SURE. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: BOARD MEMBERS AND MEMBERS OF THE AUDIENCE, I WAS LEANING BACK IN MY CHAIR. I LEANED FORWARD AND HIT THE WRONG BUTTON. I WAS VOTING SUPPORT. >>MARK SHARPE: I'LL MOVE TO RECONSIDER. >>KEN HAGAN: MOTION TO RECONSIDER COMMISSIONER SHARPE. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? >>KEVIN BECKNER: SECOND. >>KEN HAGAN: SECOND COMMISSIONER BECKNER. PLEASE RECORD YOUR VOTE. >>ROSE FERLITA: THIS IS THE MOTION [INAUDIBLE] >>MARK SHARPE: A REVOTE ON YOUR MOTION. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: I HIT THE WRONG BUTTON. >>MARK SHARPE: HE HIT THE WRONG BUTTON. >>MARK SHARPE: SO WE'RE GOING TO REVOTE YOUR VOTE. WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD -- >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: IT'S THE SAME MOTION. I JUST HIT THE -- >>RECORDING SECRETARY: MOTION CARRIED 7-0. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. NOW BACK TO THE ORIGINAL MOTION BY COMMISSIONER FERLITA, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SHARPE. PLEASE RECORD YOUR VOTE. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. >>ROSE FERLITA: THAT'S OKAY. >>RECORDING SECRETARY: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: I DID. DID IT WORK? >>KEN HAGAN: OPERATOR ERROR. >>RECORDING SECRETARY: MOTION CARRIED 6-1. COMMISSIONER NORMAN VOTED NO. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: I JUST HAVE ONE QUICK QUESTION FOR, WELL, I GUESS THE BUDGET DIRECTOR. WITH THIS ACTION THAT WE'VE JUST TAKEN, IT RE-CREATES NOW TWO VACANT POSITIONS; AM I CORRECT? SO NOW WE WILL HAVE TO ADD TWO LINE ITEMS BACK IN THE BUDGET FOR TWO POSITIONS THAT WE EFFECTIVELY -- >>ERIC JOHNSON: I'M ASSUMING MARK AND I HAVE RETURNED TO OUR DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR JOBS WHICH WOULD BE FUNDED AND THAT YOU'LL HAVE A SERIES OF DEPARTMENTS THAT DON'T HAVE AN ASSIGNMENT TO AN ASSISTANT COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. THERE ARE NO VACANCIES. WE BOTH HELD TWO JOBS. WE'LL RETURN TO THE JOB THAT WE HAD PREVIOUSLY HELD, AND YOU WILL HAVE NO POSITIONS TO OVERSEE THE MANAGEMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENTS AND THE UTILITIES AND COMMERCE -- >>MIKE MERRILL: [INAUDIBLE] >>ERIC JOHNSON: WHAT? >>MIKE MERRILL: COMMERCE. >>ERIC JOHNSON: COMMERCE. THE UTILITIES AND COMMERCE DEPARTMENTS. >>KEVIN WHITE: WELL, MY MAIN CONCERN IS I'M JUST SAYING WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY NEW LINE ITEMS FROM WITHIN THE BUDGET, THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE VACANT POSITIONS -- >>ERIC JOHNSON: NO, THERE ARE NO VACANT POSITIONS. >>KEVIN WHITE: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. MR. GORDON, ARE YOU STILL HERE? I UNDERSTAND WE HAD AN ITEM TO PICK UP THAT WAS CARRIED OVER FROM YESTERDAY AFTERNOON. >>BOB GORDON: YES. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. BOB GORDON, PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR. YESTERDAY THE BOARD VOTED TO CONTINUE TWO ITEMS OFF THE CONSENT. ONE WAS A-97, A REPORT TO THE BOARD ON THE WORKS CONTRACTS, AND ONE WAS A-48, WHICH IS THE AWARD OF A BID FOR ROAD CONSTRUCTION TO SUNCOAST DEVELOPMENT OF PINELLAS COUNTY. THE A-97 ITEM, WHICH IS THE WORKS REPORT DIDN'T HAVE DETAIL SUFFICIENT TO SATISFY THE CONCERNS OF COMMISSIONER BECKNER. TO HIS -- YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO REVIEW THE REPORT, BUT WE HAVE ADDED THE DETAIL ON OVER ALMOST A THOUSAND OR SO WORK ORDERS THAT HAVE BEEN ISSUED OVER THE PERIOD THAT THIS REPORT SUMMARIZED AND REALIZE THAT MAY NOT BE ENOUGH TO GARNER YOUR SUPPORT TODAY, BUT I THINK WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT MAY BE MORE RESPONSIVE TO YOUR REQUEST FOR ADDITIONAL DETAIL, AND IF NOT, WE CAN CERTAINLY PROVIDE YOU ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. SO WHAT WE'D LIKE THE BOARD TO DO IS -- YOU'RE PASSING THOSE OUT IF YOU COULD, PLEASE. THIS IS JUST FOR THE RECORD. WHAT WE'RE REQUESTING THEN IS TO ALLOW THE AWARD OF A CONSTRUCTION BID TO SUNCOAST DEVELOPMENT OF PINELLAS COUNTY. THIS IS A WORKS CONTRACT, AND THIS WILL BE TO EXPEND MONIES THAT THE BOARD HAS ALREADY APPROVED, EITHER IN OPERATING BUDGETS OR CAPITAL BUDGETS, AND THIS WOULD BE FOR $3.2 MILLION. IT'S THE AWARD OF BID NUMBER -- I CAN'T READ IT WITHOUT MY READING GLASSES, SORRY -- C-0115-09(MK). THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. AND AGAIN, MR. GORDON, I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD, AND AGAIN, I'D LIKE TO SPEND SOME MORE TIME WITH YOU BECAUSE AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, I HAVE A LOT OF FAITH AND CONFIDENCE IN YOU AND YOUR DEPARTMENT. I KNOW I'M A NEWER COMMISSIONER HERE, I NEED TO LEARN A LITTLE BIT MORE, AND AGAIN, I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT I'M JUST TRYING TO -- YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE HIRED ME FOR ACCOUNTABILITY, AND I NEED TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I'M VOTING ON, SO I WOULD -- I JUST WANT TO SPEND MORE TIME WITH YOU SO I UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS AND ALSO UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT MORE HOW THE WORKS CONTRACT WORK, SO I WOULD JUST ASK THAT -- I'LL HAVE MY OFFICE CONTACT YOU SO WE CAN SET UP SOME MORE TIME TO DISCUSS THIS BECAUSE I'M JUST GETTING THIS TODAY. JUST FOR THE RECORD, I'M STILL NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT IT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T REVIEWED IT, BUT I KNOW YOU HAVE MY OTHER COLLEAGUES HERE THAT HAVE WORKED HERE THAT MAY BE IN SUPPORT OF THAT MOTION, BUT AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR FOR THE RECORD THAT IT'S NOT YOUR ABILITY, IT'S NOT YOUR DEPARTMENT THAT I HAVE QUESTIONS, I JUST -- IT'S ALL ABOUT AN ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY ISSUE FOR ME, AND I THINK YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP ME RESOLVE THAT. >>BOB GORDON: YES, SIR, WE'D WOULD BE DELIGHTED TO MEET WITH YOU, SIR.. >>KEVIN BECKNER: I WILL NOT MOVE THE ITEM. >>KEN HAGAN: WE'VE GOT A MOTION TO MOVE BY COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: NO. I'M ACTUALLY -- I'M NOT -- >>MARK SHARPE: I'LL MAKE THE MOTION. YOU CAN'T MOVE THE ITEM AND DENY IT, SO I'LL MOVE TO APPROVE. >>KEN HAGAN: MOTION COMMISSIONER SHARPE, SECOND COMMISSIONER WHITE. PLEASE RECORD YOUR VOTE. >>BOB GORDON: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>RECORDING SECRETARY: MOTION CARRIED 5-1. COMMISSIONER BECKNER VOTED NO. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: MR. CHAIRMAN, ONE QUICK COMMENT. I DID CONFIRM THIS WITH OUR ATTORNEY JUST NOW, SO I JUST WANT TO SAY ONE SMALL THING HERE. JUST IN CASE ANYBODY FEELS WE CRIPPLED THIS WHOLE PROCESS ABOUT THE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATORS AND WHAT THEY CAN OR CAN'T DO -- AND I THINK I'M ACCURATE, IF MS. BEAN SO CHOSE, SHE COULD COME BACK AND ASK FOR RECONFIRMATION OF THOSE APPOINTMENTS WITH DIFFERENT CONDITIONS OR CIRCUMSTANCES, LIKE SAY, FOR INSTANCE, A REDUCTION IN THE SALARY. SHE COULD DO THAT, AND THAT WOULDN'T STOP THE WHOLE PROCESS? >>RENEE LEE: THAT'S CORRECT, COMMISSIONER. >>ROSE FERLITA: I JUST WANT TO PUT THAT ON THE RECORD BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE SOMEBODY -- SOMETIMES WHOEVER TOUCHES THE DOCUMENT LAST HAS THEIR FINGERPRINTS ON IT AND EVERYBODY WALKS AWAY. SHE HAS THAT OPTION TO COME BACK BASED ON THE CHARTER, BASED ON HER AUTHORITY, BASED ON ANYTHING SHE WANTS, BUT IF SHE WANTS AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED DO THE RIGHT THING, BRING IT BACK, REDUCE THAT, EVERYBODY FEELS GOOD ABOUT IT, THEY MOVE FORWARD, AND THE BUDGET CONTINUES. THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. MS. BEAN. >>PAT BEAN: YES. >>KEN HAGAN: NEXT ITEM. >>PAT BEAN: WE WOULD AT THIS TIME WANT TO HOLD A BRIEF DISCUSSION -- AND I'LL ASK ERIC TO DO THIS -- ABOUT THE STATUS OF THE GENERAL FUND REVENUE. >>JIM NORMAN: NO, SIR. I HAD ANOTHER ITEM THAT I HAD PUT ON. >>PAT BEAN: OH, I'M SORRY. >>JIM NORMAN: IT WAS CONCERNING -- IT WAS CONCERNING THE PROCESS OF OUR RETIREMENT SYSTEM AND ASKING FOR A POLICY TO BE DIRECTED TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. ACTUALLY, I PULLED TWO PAGES OF INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE -- WELL, I GUESS FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM DOUBLE DIPPED, AND I WOULD LIKE TO ASSIGN IT TO OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY THAT WOULD LOOK AT PARAMETERS THAT WE COULD PASS AS A LOCAL POLICY, AND I DO WANT TO -- I WANT TO APOLOGIZE PUBLICLY TO SOMEONE THAT I SPOKE OF THE OTHER DAY. MR. HUNTER, I READ IN THE NEWSPAPER THAT HE HAD PROCEEDED WITH STEPPING DOWN AND THEN GETTING REAPPOINTED TO HIS DIRECTOR POSITION. I CLARIFIED THAT -- HE CLARIFIED THAT WITH ME, AND I WAS VERY PROUD THAT -- IT WAS NOT REPORTED IN THE NEWSPAPER -- THAT HE DECLINED TO TAKE THAT RETIREMENT SYSTEM, SO THAT SHOWS THAT IT CAN BE DONE, SO THEREFORE, I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT WE HAVE A TWO-YEAR WAITING PERIOD BEFORE SOMEONE CAN REENERGIZE THE RETIREMENT SYSTEM. >>MARK SHARPE: SECOND. >>JIM NORMAN: THERE ARE AT LEAST TWO FULL PAGES OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE EXERCISED -- THAT ARE WORKING FULL-TIME OR THE FULL FIRST PAGE HERE IS WORKING FULL-TIME, AND THESE ARE DIFFERENT PART-TIME CLASSIFICATIONS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE DRAWING DOWN TWO SALARIES WITHIN OUR ORGANIZATION. THAT'S REAL MONEY. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. WE'VE GOT A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER NORMAN, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>MARK SHARPE: YES. >>KEN HAGAN: ANY COMMENTS? >>KEVIN BECKNER: YEAH. I'M SORRY, MR. CHAIR. WHAT EXACTLY, THEN, IS THE MOTION THAT WE'RE VOTING ON? >>JIM NORMAN: TO ASSIGN IT TO OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS LEGAL THAT WE COULD HAVE A -- THE STATE OF FLORIDA HAS A RETIREMENT SYSTEM OPTION THAT YOU CAN STEP DOWN; HOWEVER, WHAT I -- I'M TRYING TO AVOID THE HOLDING OF THE SPOT, DOUBLE DIPPING, THAT KIND OF THING WITHIN COUNTY GOVERNMENT. WE SHOULD SET A -- WE SHOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A DIFFERENT STANDARD. I DON'T CARE IF THESE PEOPLE GO OUT AND WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE, WHATEVER, BUT TO GO BACK IN AND TAKE ANOTHER FULL- TIME SALARY AS A -- ON THE TAXPAYER DIME I BELIEVE IS THE WRONG THING TO DO. LET ME ALSO SAY THAT WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU APPROACH THINGS LIKE SOCIAL SECURITY AND THINGS LIKE THAT, RETIRED PEOPLE ARE -- THERE'S LIMITS THEY CAN MAKE BEFORE THEY CAN'T TAKE -- GET THAT AMOUNT IN THE RETIREMENT SYSTEM IN SOCIAL SECURITY AND THINGS, SO THERE ARE RULES AND REGULATIONS OUT THERE; HOWEVER, UNDER THIS SCENARIO, THEY CAN PICK UP, YOU KNOW, $100,000 AND COME BACK INTO ANOTHER $100,000 SALARY. THEY SHOULD -- LIKE MR. HUNTER DID, THEY SHOULD RESCIND -- IF THEY WANT TO GO BACK TO WORK FULL-TIME AND MAKE THOSE KIND OF DOLLARS, THEY SHOULD RESCIND THAT RETIREMENT, AND - - IF THEY'RE GOING TO WORK FOR THE TAXPAYER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST REFERRING IT OVER TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY? >>JIM NORMAN: THAT'S CORRECT. BRING BACK PARAMETERS AND MAKE SURE EVERYTHING WE WOULD DO WOULD BE LEGALLY SOUND. >>KEVIN BECKNER: I WOULD ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT THAT. I MEAN, THERE'S SOME SERIOUS ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED AROUND THAT, AND I WOULD FULLY SUPPORT THAT GOING TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY. >>JIM NORMAN: AND MS. LEE, LET ME JUST SAY THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN GO RETROACTIVE, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT, WE NEED TO SET A POLICY THAT WE HAVE THAT AS WE GO FORWARD IN THIS COUNTY. >>MARK SHARPE: SECOND. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION COMMISSIONER NORMAN, SECOND COMMISSIONER SHARPE. PLEASE RECORD YOUR VOTE. >>RECORDING SECRETARY: MOTION CARRIED 7-0. >>KEN HAGAN: NEXT ITEM. >>PAT BEAN: YES. >>ERIC JOHNSON: COMMISSIONERS, WE'VE PASSED OUT AN UPDATE. AS IS TYPICALLY THE CASE DURING THIS TIME IN THE BUDGET PROCESS, WE GIVE YOU AN UPDATE ON THE STATUS OF THE BUDGET. I WILL TELL YOU THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK ON ANY UPDATES THAT WE CHARACTERIZE AS ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENTS TO THE BUDGET, AND OUR INTENT IS TO WORK AND GET THAT TO YOU PRIOR TO THE END OF THIS MONTH WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR RECONCILIATION WORKSHOP. BUT AT THIS POINT, SO YOU HAVE A SENSE AS YOU CONSIDER FLAGGING ITEMS, IN OUR TWO MAJOR OPERATING FUNDS, THERE ARE LIMITED DOLLARS THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN THE FIRST YEAR, AND IF I CAN TAKE YOU DOWN THE LIST, IN TERMS OF REVENUES, WE HAVE A TRUE UP OF THE BUDGET TO THE JULY 1 PROPERTY APPRAISER VALUES, AND WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT REVENUES, A POSITIVE NUMBER IS A GOOD SIGN. THOSE NUMBERS ARE UP ABOUT A MILLION-NINE IN THE COUNTYWIDE FUND FOR NEXT YEAR, A MILLION-SEVEN THE FOLLOWING YEAR, UNINCORPORATED UP BY ABOUT $3.6 MILLION IN TERMS OF NET REVENUE FOR FISCAL '10 AND UP 3.3 THE FOLLOWING YEAR. IT THEN GOES DOWNHILL FROM THERE BECAUSE THE STATE HAS UPDATED THEIR ESTIMATES OF VARIOUS REVENUES, AND SO WE ARE LOSING REVENUE FROM STATE REVENUE SHARING EACH YEAR. THIS PARTICULARLY HURTS THE UNINCORPORATED FUND. THE HALF-CENT SALES TAX HAS IMPLICATIONS BOTH YEARS IN THE FUNDS. THERE'S NO IMPACT ON THE UNINCORPORATED FUND IN THE SECOND YEAR BECAUSE THERE'S NO USE OF THAT REVENUE FOR UNINCORPORATED PURPOSES IN FISCAL '10. EXCUSE ME, THE FIRST YEAR, FISCAL '10, BUT THERE IS AN IMPACT IN FISCAL '11. THE CIT REVENUE IS REVISED DOWN. THAT'S AN UNINCORPORATED REVENUE, AND AS THE CLERK'S OFFICE WORKS THROUGH THEIR LINE-ITEM AUDIT OF THE BUDGET, THERE'S A NET REDUCTION AS WE'VE MADE ADJUSTMENTS TO THE BUDGET. SO OVERALL, THIS TERMS OF REVENUE ADJUSTMENTS, COUNTYWIDE WE HAVE A $1.18-MILLION INCREASE NEXT YEAR. IT REDUCES TO 832,000 BY THE SECOND YEAR. IN THE UNINCORPORATED FUND OR MSTU FUND AS IT APPEARS ON THE TAX BILL $2.2 MILLION TO THE GOOD THE FIRST YEAR, $542,000 BY THE SECOND YEAR, AND THEN WE HAVE A SERIES OF EXPENDITURE ADJUSTMENTS. ONE IS THAT AS -- AS THE PROPERTY APPRAISER REVISED ESTIMATES, HAD THE FIRST REAL ESTIMATES OF WHAT WE HAVE TO PAY TO THE MUNICIPALITIES FOR THEIR COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AREAS. THOSE ARE THE TAX INCREMENT FINANCING PAYMENTS THAT WE MAKE, AND WE'VE SAVED A MILLION AND A HALF TO TWO MILLION OVER THE NEXT TWO YEARS IN TERMS OF THE PAYMENTS, SO THAT'S A POSITIVE NUMBER, THEREFORE HELPFUL TO US IN TERMS OF THE BUDGET. YOU RECEIVED NOTICE FROM THE SHERIFF A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, WE HAD CLARIFICATION YESTERDAY THAT, IN FACT, THE SHERIFF IS REDUCING HIS REQUEST FOR FUNDING ONLY IN FISCAL '10, SO THAT'S A ONE-TIME BENEFIT, $2 MILLION IN EACH OF THE TWO FUNDS. WE'VE LOOKED AT THE TAMPA SPORTS AUTHORITY. WE'RE CONTINUING TO LOOK AT OPPORTUNITIES TO -- TO DRIVE OUR COMMITMENT TO THE TSA NEEDS DOWN. THEY'VE WORKED WITH US IN TERMS OF REDUCING THEIR BUDGET, AND SO WE'VE PICKED UP $221,000 NEXT YEAR IN TERMS OF A LOWER COMMITMENT TO THEM AND 236,000 THE FOLLOWING YEAR. THE AUDIT ADJUSTMENTS FROM THE CLERK'S OFFICE ARE HELPFUL IN TERMS OF -- OF REDUCING EXPENDITURES, SO WE HAVE A SMALL BENEFIT THERE. COMMISSIONER FERLITA HAD TALKED LAST MONTH ABOUT US GOING IN AND LOOKING AT LINE ITEM DETAIL WITHIN BUDGETS, AND WE'VE WORKED WITH DEPARTMENTS OVER THE LAST MONTH. THERE'S A NET SAVINGS BY REDUCING EXPENDITURES OF CLOSE TO $400,000 EACH YEAR IN THE COUNTYWIDE FUND, RELATIVELY SMALL AMOUNT, $3,000, IN THE UNINCORPORATED FUND. AND THEN AS THE PROPERTY TAX VALUES ADJUST SO DO THE TAX COLLECTOR COMMISSIONS -- EXCUSE ME -- AND ALSO WE HAVE TO TRUE UP -- BECAUSE WE PAY COMMISSIONS ON BEHALF OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, SO WE HAVE TO SEE WHERE THEY'RE GOING IN TERMS OF THEIR TAX BASE TO DETERMINE WHAT FEES WE'LL PAY ON THEIR BEHALF. SO THE NET RESULT IS THAT NEXT YEAR, FISCAL '10, COUNTYWIDE WE'VE GOT JUST OVER $4.5 MILLION AVAILABLE. THERE'S A SMALLER AMOUNT FOR THE SECOND YEAR, 2.8 MILLION, BUT BELOW THAT YOU'LL SEE A NEGATIVE 2.8 MILLION BECAUSE THE FISCAL '11 COUNTYWIDE BUDGET HAD A DEFICIT OF $6.9 MILLION THAT WE'D IDENTIFIED WE'D HAVE TO LOOK TO CLOSE IN ORDER TO BALANCE THE FISCAL '11 BUDGET, SO IN EFFECT THERE'S NO MONEY ON THE TABLE FOR RESTORATION OF ANYTHING AT THIS POINT IN FISCAL '11. WE'RE STILL ROUGHLY $4.1 MILLION OUT OF BALANCE IN THE COUNTYWIDE GENERAL FUND FOR FISCAL '11, BUT AS I INDICATED, YOU'VE GOT ABOUT $4.5 MILLION. FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT THAT COULD MEAN IS YOU COULD LOOK AT SOME OF THE CUTS WE'VE RECOMMENDED IN FISCAL '10 AND DEFER THEM FOR A YEAR, SO YOU COULD PUSH THEM BACK. OBVIOUSLY THE FISCAL '11 BUDGET AT THIS POINT IS A PLAN. ALL OF THOSE REVENUE NUMBERS WILL CONTINUE TO PERCOLATE OVER THE NEXT YEAR. THEY MAY GO UP, THEY MAY GO DOWN. BUT WE AT THIS POINT CAN'T REPRESENT THAT THERE IS ANY AVAILABLE MONEY IN FISCAL '11. IN THE UNINCORPORATED FUND, AGAIN, LARGELY BECAUSE OF THE SHERIFF'S ONE-TIME REDUCTION IN HIS BUDGET REQUEST, YOU'VE GOT $4.2 MILLION AVAILABLE, BUT BY THE FOLLOWING YEAR IT'S LESS THAN 600,000. WHAT THAT SUGGESTS IS THAT YOU'VE GOT THE CAPACITY TO RESTORE CUTBACKS EQUALING ROUGHLY $58 3,000 IN TERMS OF ONGOING PROGRAM RESTORATION, BUT YOU COULD IN THE FIRST YEAR, FISCAL '10, CONSIDER DEFERRING SOME OF THE CURRENTLY RECOMMENDED CUTS BY A YEAR, SO YOU HAVE THAT CAPACITY TO PUSH OUT SOME OF THE SERVICE REDUCTIONS IN THE HOPES THAT THINGS IMPROVE AS WE UPDATE THE BUDGET NEXT YEAR. THERE'S ONE OTHER THING I THINK I NEED TO BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION. THAT IS THE SHERIFF ALSO INDICATED THAT HE WOULD RETURN FUNDS THIS YEAR IN PART BECAUSE THEY WILL SPEND LESS OF THEIR BUDGET IN PART BECAUSE THEY HAVE REVENUES THEY RECEIVED THAT THEY DID NOT BUDGET AND DID NOT PLAN TO USE FOR ANY OF THEIR APPROPRIATIONS, AND SO WHAT WE'RE WORKING WITH DEBT MANAGEMENT ON AT THIS POINT IS TO TAKE THOSE FUNDS, THAT'S ONE-TIME MONEY -- IF IT ENDS UP IN FUND BALANCE AT THE END OF THIS YEAR AND WE DRAW DOWN FUND BALANCE, WE'LL HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO THE RATING AGENCIES WHY WE'RE USING THOSE FUNDS. WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO IS TO BRING BACK AN AGENDA ITEM TO THE BOARD TO APPROPRIATE AN AMOUNT FROM CONTINGENCY EQUAL TO THE FUNDS THE SHERIFF HAS NOW TOLD US HE'LL RETURN WHEN THE DUST SETTLES AFTER SEPTEMBER 30th. WE'D LIKE TO TAKE THAT MONEY THIS YEAR AND START DEFEASING DEBT THIS YEAR. BY DOING THAT, WE TURN A ONE-TIME REFUND FROM THE SHERIFF INTO A LOWER DEBT PAYMENT IN ALL SUBSEQUENT YEARS. WHAT THAT MEANS IS WE'RE LOOKING TO FIND A WAY TO TURN THAT INTO SOME RECURRING COUNTYWIDE GENERAL FUND DOLLARS THAT YOU CAN USE, NOT JUST TO RESTORE PROGRAMS FOR A YEAR BUT TO BE ABLE TO DO SOME PROGRAM RESTORATION FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE, SO WE'RE STILL WORKING ON THOSE NUMBERS. WE HAVE TO LOOK REALLY DEBT ISSUE BY DEBT ISSUE TO LOOK AT WHAT IT TAKES TO DEFEASE THE DEBT, BUT IT'S OUR EXPECTATION THAT BY NEXT WEEK WHEN WE COME BACK, WE'LL BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE ON THAT AND TELL YOU WHETHER, IN FACT, COUNTYWIDE WE CAN -- WELL, I GUESS ACTUALLY IF IT'S COUNTYWIDE DOLLARS, THE NEXT THING WE WOULD DO IS WE WOULD USE THE DEBT DEFEASANCE TO FURTHER REDUCE WHAT'S STILL A $4.1-MILLION DEFICIT. IF WE CAN GET PAST THAT $4.1 MILLION, THEN WE'RE IN A POSITION OF HAVING RECURRING DOLLARS THAT COULD BE USED TO RESTORE PROGRAMS ON AN ONGOING BASIS, BUT WE ARE TRYING TO USE THE -- THE -- THE ADDITIONAL DOLLARS THAT THE SHERIFF HAS INDICATED HE'LL RETURN TO DRIVE DOWN THE DEFICIT AND TO PROVIDE SOME OPTIONS FOR THE BOARD. WITH THAT, I'D BE GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. >>KEN HAGAN: ERIC, CAN YOU CLARIFY THE RECONCILIATION MEETING ON THE 30th? I KNOW WE HAVE TWO WORKSHOPS SCHEDULED, I BELIEVE, ON THE 22nd AND THE 29th. IT CERTAINLY APPEARS WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET VERY FAR TODAY WITH OUR BUDGET ITEMS, SO CAN YOU CLARIFY FOR I GUESS THE ENTIRE BOARD -- >>ERIC JOHNSON: CERTAINLY. >>KEN HAGAN: I KNOW -- I THINK HISTORICALLY OR SINCE THE TIME I'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD IT SEEMS LIKE AT THE RECONCILIATION BOARD MEETING WE'VE TYPICALLY ATTEMPTED TO HAVE A BALANCED BUDGET AT THAT TIME, BUT I GUESS -- IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT ALL THAT WE I GUESS STATUTORILY HAVE TO DO AT THAT POINT IS TO SUBMIT OUR TENTATIVE TRIM MILLAGE. >>PAT BEAN: TRIM MILLAGE. >>ERIC JOHNSON: YES, SIR. >>KEN HAGAN: WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY -- IN OTHER WORDS, THE BOARD IS NOT IN THE POSITION WHERE WE HAVE TO BALANCE ALL OF THE FLAGGED ITEMS AND MAKE THAT DECISION ON THE -- ON THE 30th, OUR RECONCILIATION MEETING, WHEN I THINK HISTORICALLY WE'VE TRIED TO DO IT AT THAT TIME. IS THAT ACCURATE, AND CAN YOU JUST -- >>ERIC JOHNSON: YES. OUR SUGGESTION WOULD BE -- AND THAT REALLY SLIDES INTO THE NEXT ITEM -- IS WE'VE GOT A WORKSHOP NEXT WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON TO CONTINUE WHAT WE DON'T GET TO TODAY, WHICH IS MUCH OF THE AGENDA. WE HAVE A SECOND WORKSHOP FOLLOWING THAT TO DEAL WITH SOME OF THE SPECIFIC PROGRAM AREAS WHERE BOARD MEMBERS HAD INDICATED AN INTEREST IN PARTICIPATING IN THE DISCUSSIONS WITH THE SHERIFF, AND THAT WAS THE -- SOME OF THE PROGRAM AREAS THAT COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM HAD IDENTIFIED FOR CONSIDERATION, AND THAT'S WHY THOSE DEPARTMENTS WEREN'T PUT ON TODAY'S AGENDA. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: [INAUDIBLE] >>ERIC JOHNSON: THAT'S -- THE 22nd WOULD BE THE -- WE WOULD HAVE THE CONTINUATION OF ISSUES TODAY BEGINNING AT 1:30. BEGINNING AT 3:30, WE WOULD HAVE A MEETING THAT SEVERAL COMMISSIONERS HAD INDICATED YOU WANTED TO PARTICIPATE IN TO DISCUSS WITH THE SHERIFF ABOUT FIVE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS AND THE POTENTIAL FOR THE SHERIFF TO LOOK AT OPERATING PROGRAMS. THEN WE HAVE THE 29th, AGAIN 1:30 TO 3:30, A SCHEDULED WORKSHOP. IT WAS ON YOUR CALENDAR AS IF NEEDED, AND CLEARLY IT WILL BE NEEDED. AND THEN, COMMISSIONER HAGAN, ON THE 30th, ONE ACTION THAT WE NEED YOU TO TAKE IS TO FORMALIZE THE MILLAGE RATES THAT WE WILL SEND THAT WILL APPEAR ON THE TRIM NOTICES IN LATE AUGUST, AND I THINK WE UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU WANT TO BE. IN FACT, ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO DO WITH THE SCHEDULE I JUST WENT OVER IS I WOULD EXPECT THAT WE WOULD MAKE A PAYMENT TO THE DEBT SERVICE FUNDS TO AVOID MILLAGE INCREASES FOR DEBT. I THINK WE GOT THE MESSAGE FROM THE BOARD PREVIOUSLY THAT YOU DON'T WANT THE DEBT MILLAGE TO GO UP, SO ON THAT DATE YOU WOULD FORMALIZE RETAINING EXISTING MILLAGE RATES, AND WE WOULD TRANSMIT THAT INFORMATION, WHICH IS DUE TO THE PROPERTY APPRAISER BY THE 4th OF AUGUST. EXCUSE ME. AND THEN WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS THAT YOU USE THE BALANCE OF THE MEETING ON THE 30th -- WE HAVE THE WHOLE DAY, ALL MORNING, ALL AFTERNOON. I'D SUGGEST THAT YOU CONTINUE TO GO THROUGH YOUR REVIEW OF DEPARTMENTS. WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU A COUPLE SCHEDULES BEFORE WE LEAVE TODAY WHICH WE'VE DEVELOPED TO HELP MAKE SURE THAT THE BOARD AND THE PUBLIC UNDERSTAND NOT EVERY CUT THAT WE'VE MADE -- YOU'VE GOT NINE PAGES OF CUTS IN THE BUDGET BOOK, YOU'VE GOT A WHOLE DEPARTMENTAL SECTION THAT TALKS ABOUT POSITION CUTS, BUT IN TERMS OF SERVICE IMPLICATIONS, CUTTING BACK THE DAYS OF OPERATION OF A LIBRARY OR A PARK OR THE NUMBER OF CLIENTS THAT WON'T BE SERVED, WE'VE PUT TOGETHER A SUMMARY THAT TALKS ABOUT THE TYPES OF IMPACTS THAT THE PUBLIC WOULD NOTICE, NOT WHAT YOU MIGHT NOTICE INTERNALLY. WE'RE GOING TO GIVE THAT TO YOU TODAY, BUT WE'VE LOOKED AT POTENTIAL DATES IN AUGUST THAT YOU COULD SCHEDULE FOR ADDITIONAL WORKSHOPS IF THE BOARD IS INTERESTED IN DOING THAT, AND I HAVE THOSE DATES HERE. WE'VE GOT THE POTENTIAL TO -- EXCUSE ME -- SCHEDULE A WORKSHOP ON AUGUST 6th. I THINK THAT REQUIRES THE VALUE ADJUSTMENT BOARD MEETING ON THAT DAY TO BE RESCHEDULED. WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL FOR EITHER AUGUST 12th OR AUGUST 20th. I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A TRANSPORTATION TASK FORCE MEETING THAT HAS BLOCKED BOTH DATES, BUT ONLY ONE DATE WOULD BE USED. COMMISSIONER SHARPE, I UNDERSTAND ON THE 20th YOU'RE DUE TO GO VISIT THE CHILDREN'S BOARD IN THE HOPES OF OUR SECURING A COMMITMENT FROM THEM ON THAT DATE FOR SOME FUNDING FOR COUNTY PROGRAMS. BUT POTENTIALLY EITHER THE 12th OR THE 20th COULD BE MADE AVAILABLE FOR A BUDGET WORKSHOP IF THE BOARD DETERMINES WHICH OF THOSE DATES WILL BE USED FOR THE TRANSPORTATION WORKSHOP. AND THE OTHER DATE THAT WAS AVAILABLE AND AGAIN REQUIRES A LITTLE BIT OF MANIPULATING SOME OTHER MEETINGS, I BELIEVE, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT AUGUST 13th MIGHT ALSO BE AVAILABLE, SO WE COULD LOOK FOR THE 6th AND THE 13th AND THEN EITHER THE 12th OR THE 20th, AND THAT WOULD GIVE US THREE MORE WORKSHOP DATES. AT THIS POINT THERE HAVE BEEN A RELATIVELY FEW NUMBER OF ITEMS FLAGGED. AS WE'VE INDICATED, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE MUCH ONGOING MONEY AVAILABLE FOR RESTORATION OF PROGRAMS UNLESS WE IDENTIFY OTHER CUTBACKS BEYOND WHAT WE'VE ALREADY IDENTIFIED IN OUR RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT YOU PROBABLY DON'T NEED A FULL DAY FOR RECONCILIATION, AND IN THE PAST WE'VE USED A WHOLE DAY FOR RECONCILIATION, SO AT THE BOARD'S PLEASURE, WE'LL LOOK AT SCHEDULING ADDITIONAL WORKSHOP DATES, AND AS I INDICATED, YOU COULD REALLY TAKE THE WHOLE DAY ON THE 30th TO GET THE BUSINESS OF THE MILLAGE RATE OUT OF THE WAY EARLY IN THE DAY AND USE AS MUCH OF THE BALANCE OF THAT DAY FOR DISCUSSION OF DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES. WE REALIZE WE'VE GOT NOT ONLY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR DEPARTMENTS TO RUN THROUGH BUT OTHER AGENCIES THAT YOU'LL BE INTERESTED IN HEARING ABOUT. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. MS. BEAN OR MR. JOHNSON, WHAT ARE THE -- JUST SO THAT WE'RE AWARE WHAT YOU HAVE ON YOUR AGENDA RIGHT NOW AS FAR AS BEING THE ITEMS FLAGGED FOR REVIEW? >>ERIC JOHNSON: WE'LL DISTRIBUTE -- WE HAVE THAT. WE'LL DISTRIBUTE THAT LIST TO YOU. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THAT WAS -- BECAUSE THAT WAS PART OF MY CONCERN IS THAT I KNOW WE'VE BEEN -- THE BUDGET PROCESS IS MOVING VERY SLOWLY, AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO GO THROUGH -- IF COMMISSIONERS HAVE A PARTICULAR ITEM THAT THEY WANT TO DISCUSS, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THOSE, SO I MIGHT MAKE A SUGGESTION THAT PERHAPS PART OF OUR SECTION OF ONE OF OUR WORKSHOPS IS THAT COMMISSIONERS CAN IDENTIFY THE DIFFERENT ITEMS ON THE BUDGET THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SURE ARE FLAGGED FOR DISCUSSION SO THAT WE DON'T RUN OUT OF TIME AS WE'RE GOING DOWN THROUGH EACH ONE OF THESE DEPARTMENT BUDGET REVIEWS, BECAUSE AGAIN, MY CONCERN IS I KNOW A LOT OF THEM CONTINUE TO GET PUSHED BACK, AND THERE MAY BE ONES THAT ALL OF US HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THAT AREN'T ON THE LIST SO FAR, SO PERHAPS TO -- AT OUR NEXT BUDGET WORKSHOP, WE MIGHT BE AT LEAST ABLE TO IDENTIFY THOSE BEFORE WE START GETTING INTO RECONCILIATION. >>PAT BEAN: AND, COMMISSIONER, BECAUSE WE HAD A CONCERN ABOUT THAT OURSELVES, I TALKED WITH THE CHAIR LAST WEEK, AND WE AGREED THAT WE ARE PUTTING TOGETHER IN SYNOPSIS FORM -- BECAUSE IF WE GAVE YOU ALL THE BACKUP, YOU CAN HAVE -- YOU HAVE IT ALL IN YOUR BUDGET BOOK ANYWAY, BUT TRYING TO SYNTHESIZE IT DOWN TO SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN SEE ON A SMALL NUMBER OF PAGES ALL THE CUTS THAT ARE CURRENTLY PROGRAMMED INTO THE RECOMMENDED BUDGET SO THAT YOU CANNOT END UP IN SEPTEMBER AND THEN SAY, OH, I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS RECOMMENDED AS A CUT. I'VE ASKED THE STAFF TO NARROW IT DOWN TO SOMETHING VERY, VERY SMALL, LIKE ONE OR TWO LINES, BUT IT GETS TO THE HEART OF ALL OF THE CHANGES THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE CONCERN ABOUT FOR EVERY DEPARTMENT THAT WE OVERSEE AND THE AGENCIES THAT WE OVERSEE OR THAT YOU OVERSEE IN THE BUDGET PROCESS. SO WE ARE GOING TO GIVE YOU THAT. >>KEVIN BECKNER: NO, AND I APPRECIATE THAT, AND I THINK THAT'LL BE VERY HELPFUL. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IF WE -- THAT IF EACH COMMISSIONER IF THEY HAVE AREAS THAT THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT, WE'RE ABLE TO HAVE OPEN DISCUSSION SO, THEN, WE DON'T GET AT THE END OF THE PROCESS AND THEN WE'RE PRESENTED THIS BUDGET AND SAY, HERE, HERE YOU GO. WELL, WHAT ABOUT THIS ITEM, WHAT ABOUT THAT ITEM? WELL, I'M SORRY, WE'VE RUN OUT OF TIME, WE CAN'T DISCUSS THAT, AND THEN -- BECAUSE I WOULD PERSONALLY FEEL SHUT OUT OF THE PROCESS ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO DISCUSS A CERTAIN ITEM, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE BOARD CAN AGREE ON THAT BECAUSE FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THE PROCESS IS TO GET SOMETHING FLAGGED, AND IT HAS TO BE OPEN -- AT OUR MEETING RELATED, BUDGET RELATED. >>PAT BEAN: AT A BUDGET MEETING, YES. >>KEVIN BECKNER: AT A BUDGET MEETING, AND YOU KNOW, TWO COMMISSIONERS HAVE TO DECIDE. SO AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO BLINDSIDE YOU OR I DON'T THINK ANY OTHER COMMISSIONER WOULD WANT TO DO THAT BY SAYING, HEY, LISTEN, WE REALLY WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THIS AND WE DIDN'T GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT, SO I JUST -- PERHAPS MAYBE AT OUR NEXT BUDGET MEETING, IF THERE'S NOTHING ON THE LIST HERE, THAT MAYBE WE AS COMMISSIONERS CAN JUST POINT THOSE ITEMS OUT TO AT LEAST MAKE SURE THEY ARE SET TO BE FLAGGED. >>PAT BEAN: I THINK THAT'S AN EXCELLENT IDEA, BUT WE ALSO WANT YOU TO BE SURE AND SEE WHAT'S IN THE BUDGET THAT HAS BEEN RECOMMENDED TO YOU BECAUSE YOU MAY NOT BE THINKING ABOUT SOMETHING AS SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY ON YOUR MIND AT THE MOMENT OR THE MINDS OF THE OTHER SIX OF YOU AND YET IF YOU SEE IT HERE, YOU MAY SAY, OOH, I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT WAS IN THERE, I NEED TO FLAG THAT, SO IT'S GOOD TIMING THAT YOU BROUGHT THAT UP, AND WE HAVE THIS TO HAND OUT TO YOU. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: A COUPLE THINGS HERE. IN THE FLAGGED ITEMS, DID I -- MAYBE I MISHEARD, BUT WAS VETERANS SERVICES -- DID YOU NOT FLAG THAT, COMMISSIONER NORMAN? >>JIM NORMAN: WELL -- >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: I THOUGHT I HEARD THAT. >>JIM NORMAN: I UNDERSTOOD IT WAS BEING -- BECAUSE OF THE GRANTS THAT HAD COME THROUGH THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAD REALLY COME BACK AROUND AND RESTORED THAT, SO I DIDN'T FLAG IT BECAUSE SHE HAD ALREADY ADJUSTED IT. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: IT GOT PUT BACK IN? >>JIM NORMAN: YES. >>PAT BEAN: YES. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. >>PAT BEAN: WE HAVE MANAGED TO GET SOME GRANT DOLLARS THAT ARE GOING TO BE HELPFUL IN MANY PLACES IN THIS ORGANIZATION, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE KEY ONES WE WERE PLEASED TO GET FUNDING FOR. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: FANTASTIC. AND I ALSO -- I SEE THE ITEMS THAT I FLAGGED DID RECEIVE A SECOND FROM THE BOARD WERE NOT INCLUDED HERE. >>PAT BEAN: YES. IF THEY DIDN'T GET A SECOND, WE CAN'T -- >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: WELL, THEY WERE SECONDED. >>PAT BEAN: OH, I'M SORRY. I THOUGHT YOU SAID THEY -- >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: YES, WE DID GET SECONDS ON THESE DEPARTMENTS -- IN FACT, YOU'VE LISTED THEM ON THE AGENDA AS ITEMS WE'RE REVIEWING. >>ERIC JOHNSON: COMMISSIONER, WE UNDERSTOOD THAT WHAT YOU WERE ASKING US TO DO WAS TO SCHEDULE THOSE TEN ORGANIZATIONS TO BE DISCUSSED. WE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WAS A SPECIFIC ACTION YOU WANTED TO TAKE TO CUT OR RESTORE. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: ABSOLUTELY. TO FIND FURTHER SAVINGS IN THESE INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGENCIES. THAT'S WHY I MENTIONED THE ONES THAT I DID, AND I GUESS WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO CAPTIONING, BUT I HAD REQUESTED THESE TO BE LOOKED AT AND REVIEWED, AND I KNOW THE LAST DISCUSSION WE HAD IN MY OFFICE WE TALKED ABOUT WE'RE GOING TO NEED THE ADDITIONAL TIME TO GO THROUGH THESE FLAGGED ITEMS. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: WELL, I THINK ALL OF US HAVE OUR OWN DILEMMA ABOUT THIS, AND ERIC, THAT'S WHY I WENT OVER THERE, TO ASK YOU IF WE WERE GOING TO HAVE ANYMORE WORKSHOPS BECAUSE WE OBVIOUSLY NEED MORE WORKSHOPS. MIGHT I SUGGEST THAT MAYBE YOU PASS THOSE DATES OUT TO US, AND IF WE HAVE SOME CONFLICTS THAT CAN BE RESCHEDULED, THAT'S GREAT. IF WE CAN'T, AT LEAST LOOK AT WHEN THE MAJORITY CAN BE HERE, AND I UNDERSTAND WHERE MR. HIGGINBOTHAM IS GOING IN TERMS OF FLAGGING THEM FOR MORE EFFICIENCIES, AND I ALSO UNDERSTAND WHAT MR. BECKNER IS SAYING, BECAUSE FOR INSTANCE, IN MY CASE, I WANTED IT TO EITHER BE ON ONE OF THE AGENDA SCHEDULES ONE DAY OR FLAG, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS ALREADY FLAGGED, THE VICTIMS ASSISTANCE, AND OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT FOR MORE EFFICIENCIES BECAUSE AS IT STANDS NOW, THEY'RE DONE, SO MINE IS THE REVERSE OF WHAT MR. HIGGINBOTHAM'S DOING, SO HOWEVER WAY WE DO IT, IF WE'RE GOING TO INCLUDE EVERYTHING ON AT LEAST DIFFERENT ONES, WE'LL FLAG THEM AS WE GO, OR DO WE WANT TO SEND YOU THE FLAGS WE WANT TO LOOK -- HOW DO YOU WANT TO DO IT, BUT WE JUST -- THE POINT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT SOMETHING THAT WANTS TO BE FLAGGED BY ONE OF US -- >>MARK SHARPE: YOU SHOULD FLAG THAT. >>ROSE FERLITA: I'M SORRY? >>MARK SHARPE: VICTIMS ASSISTANCE. >>ROSE FERLITA: YES, I WANT TO FLAG IT TODAY IF I CAN. >>MARK SHARPE: I'LL SECOND IT. >>ROSE FERLITA: AND ALSO -- I'LL GET MY TWO OUT OF THE WAY AND I GUESS EVERYBODY ELSE CAN DO THE SAME THING. FLAG -- ALSO I'M CONCERNED ABOUT SOME OF THE NONPROFIT IN TERMS OF NEED, AND I DON'T THINK THAT WAS DONE EITHER, AND I DON'T THINK I HAVE TO ITEMIZE THAT NOW, BUT IF NONPROFITS ARE ON A SCHEDULE, THEN BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY, MAYBE WE DON'T NEED TO FLAG THAT. VICTIMS ASSISTANCE, THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT, MARK, BUT -- SO EXPLAIN TO ME WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH THIS SO NOBODY MISSES OUT ON THE OPPORTUNITY TO FLAG. >>PAT BEAN: NO. IF YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR CONCERN ABOUT A NONPROFIT, YOU NEED TO PUT THAT ON THE TABLE AND IF YOU GET THE SECOND VOTE, FLAG IT FOR DISCUSSION BECAUSE WE'LL BE HERE A LONG, LONG, LONG TIME IF YOU'RE GOING TO ASK US TO BRING ALL THE -- >>ROSE FERLITA: NO, NO, NO. THAT'S WHY I SAID YES ON THE VICTIMS ASSISTANCE. I'LL FLAG THE OTHER AT SOME OTHER MEETING BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME FOR MORE DISCUSSION TODAY, BUT -- >>PAT BEAN: OKAY. >>ROSE FERLITA: I GUESS WHAT I'M HEARING DIFFERENT VERSIONS IS WE ALL WANT TO BE ASSURED OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO FLAG WHAT WE WANT TO FLAG, AND SO IF WE HAVE MORE WORKSHOPS AND WE ARE A LITTLE BIT CLEARER ON WHAT HAS BEEN AND HAS NOT BEEN FLAGGED, I THINK WE'LL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO IT IN WHATEVER FORM OR FASHION WE WANT. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM, I NEED TO ASK YOU THIS QUESTION. AFTER YOU HAD FLAGGED F-3 ABOUT THE LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION POSITION, REPRESENTATIVE WEATHERFORD WE CLARIFIED WITH ANOTHER LETTER TO ALL BOARD MEMBERS THAT HE INDEED WAS CLARIFYING THAT HE WAS REQUESTING ONE POSITION. DO YOU STILL WANT TO HAVE THAT FLAGGED? >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: YES, SIR. IN FACT, I'VE SPOKEN TO HIM AS WELL, AND I STILL THINK THAT'S ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE FLAGGED FOR ELIMINATION, AND -- >>JIM NORMAN: OKAY. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: IF IT'S GOING TO BE A CHOICE BETWEEN COACHES FOR KIDS OR VICTIMS ASSISTANCE AND AN OFFICE AND STAFF FOR OUR LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION, I'M GOING TO PICK THE VICTIMS ASSISTANCE OR THE COACHES FOR KIDS. >>JIM NORMAN: I'M JUST SAYING HE DID CLARIFY IT. THAT'S MY POINT. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: AND I'VE SPOKEN TO HIM AS WELL, AND I HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION ON IT. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. SO WHEN WOULD WE NEED TO HAVE CONFIRMED FOR YOU-ALL THE FLAGGED ITEMS SO THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WANT TO DISCUSS? WHEN IS THE LATEST DATE THAT WE CAN -- THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT? >>PAT BEAN: I'LL SAY THE SOONER THE BETTER BECAUSE AS THE LIST GROWS -- AND I'M NOT SURPRISED THAT THE LIST IS GOING TO BE LONG THIS YEAR BECAUSE WE'VE HAD TO AFFECT SO MANY DIFFERENT PROGRAMS AND AGENCIES, BUT THE SOONER WE KNOW AND THE MORE SPECIFICITY YOU CAN GIVE US BEHIND THE FLAG SO WE KNOW WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION WE NEED TO GATHER FOR YOU, THE BETTER. I'M NOT GOING TO SAY YOU CAN'T DO IT EVEN ON LIKE THE 20 -- WHAT'S THE NEXT -- I MOVED MY DATES. >>ERIC JOHNSON: 22nd, 29th, 30th. >>PAT BEAN: YOU COULD DO IT ON THE 22nd, 29th, THE 30th EVEN, BUT BY THAT TIME WE REALLY DO NEED TO KNOW. I WOULD HURRY -- I MEAN I WOULD URGE YOU TO HURRY AND GET THAT LIST PUT TOGETHER AND GET IT TO US IN A MEETING, A BUDGET WORKSHOP, WHERE WE CAN THEN MAKE SURE WE HAVE ALL OF IT RECORDED. THE PROBLEM WHEN YOU DO IT OUTSIDE OF A BUDGET WORKSHOP IS IF WE'RE NOT THERE, WE DON'T GET THE MESSAGE SOMETIMES. >>KEVIN BECKNER: BUT -- WELL, THEN, IS IT LEGAL TO -- IS IT OUT OF BOARD POLICY OR IS IT -- IF WE CAME UP WITH A LIST OR SUBMITTED A LIST, OR MUST IT ACTUALLY HAPPEN AND OCCUR AT AN OPEN BOARD MEETING, AND MUST IT -- IT MUST RECEIVE A SECOND, IS THAT CORRECT? >>PAT BEAN: YES. THAT'S THE BOARD POLICY. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THEN PERHAPS I SUGGEST AT OUR NEXT TWO -- WE'VE GOT JULY 22nd AND A POTENTIAL JULY 29th. >>PAT BEAN: UH-HUH. >>KEVIN BECKNER: WHAT ABOUT IF WE JUST HAVE A TIME IN THE MEETING WHERE THIS IS -- TO TALK ABOUT FLAGGED ITEMS AND THAT WE CAN JUST DISCUSS WHAT ITEMS WE WANT TO HAVE FLAGGED SO WE HAVE A SEGMENT AT EACH ONE OF THOSE NEXT TWO WORKSHOPS TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT, TO AT LEAST MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN -- THIS HAPPENS IN THIS PROCESS BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND WE'RE STARTING TO GET UNDER A TIME DEADLINE, AND AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO -- I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE EVERYBODY SCRAMBLING, BUT AGAIN, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT ANYTHING WE NEED TO GET FLAGGED THAT WE CAN -- WE CAN DO THAT AND YOU- ALL ARE WELL AWARE OF THAT. >>PAT BEAN: IF YOU COULD DO THAT AT THE 22nd WORKSHOP, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. >>KEVIN BECKNER: HOW ABOUT IF WE DO THIS. THE 22nd I THINK WE CAN SHOOT FOR, AND THEN LET'S STILL HAVE ANOTHER SEGMENT. IF 29th IS ANOTHER DEADLINE, THEN LET'S HAVE A SEGMENT ALSO AVAILABLE IN CASE THERE'S ANY LAST-MINUTE FLAGGED ITEMS. >>ERIC JOHNSON: AND JUST TO PROVIDE SOME REASSURANCE TO THE PUBLIC, THE TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS IN SEPTEMBER ARE FOR THE PURPOSE OF CONTINUING TO TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT IN CHANGING THE BUDGET, AND I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE A YEAR WHERE WE WEREN'T STILL REVISING THE BUDGET AT THAT LAST PUBLIC HEARING, SO WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO DO THE FLAGGING BECAUSE AS YOU IDENTIFY THINGS, WE START TO LOOK AT THE ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS, BECAUSE OPTIONS ARE ALTERNATIVES, AND LOOK FOR OFFSETS TO SEE WHERE THE MONEY MIGHT COME FROM TO RESTORE A CUT, BUT TYPICALLY THE BOARD WILL GO THROUGH THE FLAGGED ITEMS AT THE END OF JULY, BUT EVEN IN SEPTEMBER, AS YOU CONTINUE TO HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC, WE CONTINUE TO FINE-TUNE THE BUDGET DOWN TO THE END, BUT THE MORE ITEMS WE CAN GET RESOLVED EARLIER, OBVIOUSLY THE MORE CONSTITUENCIES THAT HAVE A SENSE OF WHERE THINGS ARE GOING AND THE EASIER IT SHOULD BE FOR YOU WHEN YOU GET TO THOSE PUBLIC HEARINGS. >>KEVIN BECKNER: OKAY. SO WE KNOW IF WE HAVE THE MAIN ITEMS THAT WE WANT TO HAVE FLAGGED AT LEAST FOR BOARD MEMBERS AND WHAT OUR CONCERNS ARE, WE CAN GET THOSE ACCOMPLISHED FOR YOU-ALL AT THE NEXT TWO MEETINGS, AND THEN -- BUT JUST SO THE PUBLIC UNDERSTAND, AS THINGS START TO PROGRESS, WE STILL HAVE OPPORTUNITIES THEN IF SOMEBODY ELSE BRINGS UP SOMETHING THROUGH PUBLIC COMMENT AT OUR FUTURE WORKSHOPS? >> YES, SIR. >>KEN HAGAN: AND THE TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS IN SEPTEMBER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: GREAT. THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: I THINK BEFORE WE DEPART WE DO WANT TO COVER THE PARKS AND RECREATION ITEM THAT MARK THORNTON CONTACTED US ABOUT YESTERDAY, SO WHY DON'T WE GET AN UPDATE ON THAT, AND -- >>PAT BEAN: MR. THORNTON. >>KEN HAGAN: GOOD AFTERNOON, MARK. >>MARK THORNTON: GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. MARK THORNTON, DIRECTOR OF PARKS, RECREATION, AND CONSERVATION. I'M GOING TO -- WE'RE PASSING OUT THE INFORMATION THAT I WANT TO PROVIDE TO YOU TODAY, AND TO BE VERY BRIEFLY -- TO BE VERY BRIEF ON THIS ISSUE, WHAT I'VE GOT BEFORE THAT -- YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THERE JUST AS SOON AS IT GETS THERE -- IS THREE OPTIONS. WE WANTED TO SHOW YOU WHAT OUR TOTAL COSTS -- AND WE WENT BACK AND COSTED OUT EVERY DETAIL OF OUR OPERATION WHEN IT COMES TO THE AFTERSCHOOL, WHAT OUR CURRENT OPERATION IS WITH THE WAY IT IS THIS YEAR, AND THEN WE HAVE THE OPTIONS "B" AND "C" THAT ARE AN IN-HOUSE PROGRAM AND A PARTNERSHIP. THE "B" AND "C" ARE REALLY THE TWO VIABLE PROGRAMS THAT WE CAN RECOMMEND TO YOU BASED ON THE CURRENT BUDGET SITUATION THAT DO NOT REQUIRE ADDITIONAL DOLLARS WITHIN THE BUDGET. OPTION "B" -- AND I'LL JUST MAKE SURE EVERYBODY GETS THAT - - AND ACTUALLY THE ONE THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE COVER SHEET'S THE ONE THAT I'M REFERRING TO. THE OTHER ONE'S JUST BACKUP DATA TO THE COVER. OPTION "B," THE PROGRAM THERE WOULD BE WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IN OTHER INSTANCES WHERE WE HAVE FULL-TIME MANAGEMENT, PART-TIME FIELD STAFF, AND THE TOTAL COST OF THAT PROGRAM OF ALL ASPECTS OF THAT IS 6.8 MILLION. THAT'S AN AVERAGE COST OF $47.57 PER WEEK PER PARTICIPANT, AND THE -- BASICALLY THAT WOULD BE THE COST OF THE PROGRAM. NOW, WE -- WE'VE ALWAYS RECOMMENDED A SLIDING-SCALE FEE. WE HAVE THIS WEEK RECEIVED A PRELIMINARY PROPOSAL FROM THE YMCA THAT THEY ARE IN POSSIBLE NEED OR PROBABLE NEED OF FACILITIES TO RUN AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAMS, AND I ADDRESSED IN AN E-MAIL LAST NIGHT THAT -- TO ALL OF YOU TO GIVE YOU THE DETAIL THERE REGARDING THEIR SITUATION WITH THE SCHOOL AND THEIR COSTS GOING UP. THE PROPOSAL FROM THE "Y" BASICALLY HAS OFFERED TO RUN THE PROGRAM THROUGH A PARTNERSHIP AND WE PROVIDE THE FACILITIES, AND THEN TOGETHER AT THE ADMINISTRATIVE LEVEL MAKE SURE THAT THE QUALITY OF THE PROGRAM AND -- THAT WE'RE SATISFIED AND THEY'RE SATISFIED. BASICALLY, THE TWO FEES, THE "B" AND "C," ARE ROUGHLY THE SAME, THE TWO COSTS OF THE PROGRAM. THE Y'S FEE'S $48 A WEEK. THEY'VE GOT SLIDING SCALES DOWN TO ZERO BASED ON INCOME. OUR COST ON -- ON THE COMPARABLE PROGRAM IS ROUGHLY $48. I WANT TO QUICKLY REFER TO THE THIRD PAGE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT OUR FUNDING SOURCES AND FUNDING STRUCTURES, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES IT EXCITING FOR EITHER OF THOSE OPTIONS. THERE ARE -- AS AN ACTION OF THE BOARD YESTERDAY, WE HAVE APPLIED AND GOT APPROVAL FROM THE BOARD ON THE CONSENT AGENDA TO APPLY FOR AND BECOME A RECIPIENT OF SCHOOL READINESS FEDERAL FUNDING, WHICH MEANS THAT PEOPLE WILL HAVE AN OPTION TO COME TO US AND THEY WILL PAY US THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT OUR MINIMUM COPAY IS, WHATEVER -- IF SOMEONE QUALIFIES FOR A $10 FEE, SCHOOL READINESS WILL GIVE US THE $38 AND KEEP US WHOLE WITH OUR REVENUE. I GAVE A -- AN EXAMPLE THERE SHOWING THAT IF OUR FEE WAS 48 AND THE Y'S ALSO A SCHOOL READINESS RECIPIENT, IF THE MINIMUM FEE THAT WE SET FOR SOME -- FOR FAMILIES TO PAY SOMETHING OF $10, THEN SCHOOL READINESS -- AND THERE'S FEDERAL MONEY THROUGH SCHOOL READINESS, COMMUNITY SERVICES BLOCK GRANT, AND OTHER SOURCES THAT WE ARE NOW TAPPING -- WE WOULD GET REIMBURSED 38, AND OUR FEES WOULD BE WHOLE, AND THAT KEEPS OUR PROGRAM OPERABLE AND THE Y'S PROGRAM OPERABLE, EITHER ONE. BECAUSE THE $48 -- WHAT WE HEARD AT THE WORKSHOP ON JUNE 11th IS THAT YOU ASKED ME TO COME BACK WITH SOME RECOMMENDATIONS TO LOWER THE FEE TO -- TO ONLY A SLIGHT INCREASE OR AT LEAST SOME INCREASE BUT NOT -- NOT TREMENDOUS, AND OUR FEE NOW IS $20, AND GOING FROM 20 TO 48, WE DO UNDERSTAND, IS A SUBSTANTIAL INCREASE. IN OUR CURRENT BUDGET YOU LEFT -- OR THERE IS A -- A RECOMMENDATION OF $2 MILLION FOR GRANT SUBSIDIES WHEN WE WERE TALKING TO THE SCHOOL BOARD ABOUT PARTNERSHIP. WE WOULD TAKE THAT TWO MILLION AND USE THAT TO BUY DOWN THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT DIDN'T QUALIFY FOR FEDERAL MONEY AND THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT CHOSE NOT TO APPLY FOR FEDERAL MONEY, AND I GAVE TWO EXAMPLES THERE. ONE OF THE CONCERNS WE HAVE IS THE FAMILY THAT FALLS AT 201% POVERTY WITH FOUR KIDS. THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY THE FULL RATE. WE WANT TO BUY THAT DOWN. THEY DON'T QUALIFY FOR FEDERAL FUNDING, THEY DON'T QUALIFY FOR A DIME. THEY'RE ONE PAYCHECK AWAY FROM BEING HOMELESS AND THEY'RE PAYING THEIR BILLS, AND I THINK THAT WE'RE HEARING A LOT FROM THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT DON'T QUALIFY. WE CAN TAKE OUR LOCAL MONEY IN OUR BUDGET AND BUY THAT RATE DOWN. THE REASON WE'RE SAYING BUY IT DOWN AND NOT JUST SETTING OUR FEE AT 30 IS THAT IF OUR FEE ISN'T 48 WHERE OUR COSTS ARE, WE -- WE SHOOT OURSELF IN THE FOOT ON THE FEDERAL REIMBURSEMENT SIDE. IF OUR FEE IS 30 AND WE HAVE A COPAY OF 10, WE ONLY GET TO 20. IF OUR FEE HE IS 48, WE GET THE FULL AMOUNT. FEDERAL MONEY WILL PAY UP TO $60 A WEEK FOR AFTERSCHOOL CARE. I GAVE AN EXAMPLE OF GENERALLY THE BREAKDOWN OF WHERE THAT IS. YOU KNOW, WHEN I SAY 200% OF POVERTY, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES THAT -- I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THAT EITHER, BUT WE UNDERSTAND ANNUAL INCOME, AND THE BOTTOM THERE, THE SUMMARY RATE THAT -- IF YOU'RE AT POVERTY, THAT'S A -- THAT'S A -- THIS IS A FAMILY OF FOUR, 22,000. WE BASICALLY WOULD LOOK TO LOCAL BUY-DOWN -- AND I DON'T WANT TO SAY SUBSIDY, WE'RE CALLING THAT A BUY-DOWN OF THE RATE -- UP TO $66,000 A YEAR INCOME. AFTER THAT, FAMILIES WOULD HAVE TO PAY THE FULL RATE. I BELIEVE KNOWING WHAT I'VE SEEN IN ALL OF OUR 3,000 FAMILY APPLICATIONS THAT WELL OVER 80% -- AND THIS IS NOT A TECHNICAL NUMBER BUT IT'S MY BEST GUESS -- OVER 80% QUALIFY FOR 30 OR LESS IN THIS SCENARIO, SO WE WOULD BE IMPACTING A GREAT NUMBER, BUT I REALLY FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT THAT THAT -- THOSE THAT DON'T QUALIFY FOR ANY ASSISTANCE, AND THEY'RE HURTING JUST AS BADLY. NOW, THAT CAN GO TO OUR IN-HOUSE PROGRAM, OPTION "B," OR THAT CAN GO WITH THE "Y" WITH A PARTNERSHIP. THE Y'S PLAN PROPOSAL WAS A TWO-YEAR BECAUSE WE STILL ARE WORKING WITH THE CHILDREN'S BOARD AT YOUR DIRECTION FOR A COLLABORATIVE EFFORT TO CONSOLIDATE THIS ENTIRE AFTERSCHOOL ISSUE. THE PARTNERSHIP WITH THE "Y" TAKES TWO OF THE THREE MAJOR PLAYERS OF PUBLIC AGENCY, THE SCHOOL HOST, COUNTY, AND THE "Y," AND IT DOES COMBINE A PARTNERSHIP OF THE AT LEAST TWO OF THE THREE. SCHOOL RIGHT NOW IS NOT READY TO -- TO LOOK AT THAT, BUT THEY ARE VERY MUCH INVOLVED WITH THE CHILDREN'S BOARD COLLABORATION. WE'VE ALREADY HAD A SERIES OF MEETINGS, AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO SO. THE OTHER ISSUE IS DO WE -- YOU KNOW, EITHER WAY IT AFFECTS -- IT AFFECTS STAFFING, BUT IT GUARANTEES THE PROGRAM, AND THAT HAS BEEN MY MISSION ALL ALONG, TO MAKE SURE THAT THE -- THE PEOPLE THAT NEED -- AND WE HEARD A LOT OF IT AND WE'LL HEAR IT TONIGHT, THAT IF I DON'T HAVE THE AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAM OR AN AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAM, I HAVE TO QUIT MY JOB, AND THAT'S NOT WHAT OUR GOAL IS HERE. OUR GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE THOSE THAT NEED IT HAVE IT AND IT'S AFFORDABLE. I THINK WHAT WE'VE DONE IS MAXIMIZED OUR FEDERAL ABILITY TO GET THE FEDERAL MONEY AND IT'S OUT THERE, WE KNOW IT IS, AND ALSO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE THAT DON'T QUALIFY GET SOME RELIEF. WHAT I'D LIKE DIRECTION OF IS DO YOU WANT US TO PURSUE -- AND TOM LUBY, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF YMCA IS HERE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF HIM. IF YOU WANT US TO PURSUE THE PARTNERSHIP, IF YOU WANT US TO PURSUE THE IN-HOUSE, EITHER WAY IT WORKS, WE BALANCE WITH OUR REVENUE. THE PROBLEM IS IS SCHOOL STARTS AUGUST 24th, AND WE'RE -- WE'RE AT A -- WE'RE BACKED UP TO THE WALL. WE CAN'T GO TO SEPTEMBER 30th -- I GUESS WE CAN. WE COULD GO -- SEPTEMBER 30th IS A WEDNESDAY AND OCTOBER 1st IS A THURSDAY, AND THERE'S A BIG CHANGE IF WE DO ANYTHING BETWEEN ONE AND THE OTHER. WE'D LIKE TO GET THE PARENTS -- WE START REGISTRATION LATE NEXT WEEK. WE'D LIKE TO KNOW WHERE YOU WANT US TO GO. WE CAN PACKAGE THESE THINGS UP AND GET THEM BACK TO YOU SO THAT YOU KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING, BUT WE -- WE REALLY ARE IN AN URGENT SITUATION, AND I HATE TO PUT THAT ON YOU, BUT THAT'S WHERE WE ARE. >>KEN HAGAN: WELL, MARK, MY PRIORITY HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO KEEP THE PROGRAM WHOLE TO THE GREATEST EXTENT POSSIBLE. I KNOW YOU'VE PRESENTED A COUPLE OPTIONS HERE AND YOU'VE INDICATED IN YOUR LETTER YESTERDAY AND AGAIN JUST NOW ABOUT, YOU KNOW, GIVING YOU DIRECTION AND THERE IS SOME SENSE OF URGENCY. IT WAS STATED EARLIER THAT I BELIEVE COMMISSIONER SHARPE WAS GOING TO THE CHILDREN'S BOARD, I GUESS THAT'S IN A FEW WEEKS. HOW MUCH TIME DO WE HAVE BEFORE GETTING -- GETTING ANY DIRECTION FROM THEM? I MEAN, DO WE HAVE ANY UPDATE OR LIKELIHOOD? IS THAT GOING TO FALL ON DEAF EARS? IS THERE -- I RECEIVED A LETTER FROM THEM INDICATING THAT, YOU KNOW, STATUTORILY WE'RE NOT ABLE TO REDUCE THEIR BUDGET, AND I'M JUST THE NOT GETTING WARM AND FUZZY FEELINGS COMING FROM OVER THERE, BUT WHAT'S THE LIKELIHOOD THAT WE'RE GOING TO HEAR ANYTHING POSITIVE, AND WOULD THAT POTENTIALLY INFLUENCE OR EFFECT THE DECISION THAT WE WANT TO MAKE? SO HOW MUCH TIME -- I UNDERSTAND SCHOOL STARTS. HOW MUCH TIME DO WE REALLY HAVE BEFORE WE HAVE TO GIVE YOU A FIRM DIRECTION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER? >>MARK THORNTON: LET ME ANSWER THE FIRST QUESTION. ON THE CHILDREN'S BOARD, WE REQUESTED $750,000. IT'S NOT GOING TO ALLOW US TO CONTINUE WITH OPTION "A." WHAT IT'S GOING TO DO IS THAT IT'S GOING TO ALLOW US TO BUY EVEN MORE FEES DOWN BECAUSE IF WE'RE AT 30 -- IF WE CAN BUY THAT DOWN, THEN WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE MORE FOR THAT REASONABLE FEE, AND THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD ASSIGN THAT MONEY. WE HAD TO DO THIS WITHOUT ANY PLAN ON THAT MONEY BECAUSE IF WE COUNT ON IT AND IT DOESN'T COME THROUGH, WE WILL KNOW THAT FOUR DAYS BEFORE SCHOOL STARTS, AND I DON'T WANT TO COME BACK AND SAY THAT WE CAN'T RUN THE PROGRAM, SO WE'VE - - WE'VE SET THIS UP TO TELL YOU WHAT WE NEED TO DO NOW. YOUR SECOND QUESTION IS WHEN'S THE LATEST WE KNOW? WE HAD PLANS ON STARTING OUR REGISTRATION AROUND THE 27th, AND YOU ONLY HAVE ONE MORE WORKSHOP BETWEEN NOW AND THEN. THAT'S NEXT WEDNESDAY. AND I -- AND I FEEL BADLY FOR COMING BACK AT EVERY WORKSHOP WITH THE SAME ISSUE WHILE YOU HAVE SO MANY OTHERS TO DISCUSS. YOU JUST TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT ME TO PROVIDE, WE'LL DO THAT HERE OR WHENEVER. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>MARK SHARPE: THE -- I THINK ONE OF THE -- ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT YOU FACE WE ALL FACE, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO -- AND WE'RE GOING TO STEP UP TO IT, BUT IT'S THE ISSUE OF COMMUNICATING WITH THE FAMILIES, THE PARENTS. >>MARK THORNTON: THAT'S RIGHT. >>MARK SHARPE: THEY'RE GETTING A LOT OF INFORMATION FROM PROBABLY THE COACHES THEMSELVES, OTHER PARENTS, AND THERE'S A LOT OF CONFUSION AND CONCERN, AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS I WANT US TO BE ABLE TO DO, OBVIOUSLY IT BOILS DOWN TO THE DOLLARS, BUT I WANT TO BE ABLE TO, "A," PROVIDE SOME SENSE OF ASSURANCE TO THE FAMILIES. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT -- THERE'S 3100 FAMILIES OR 3100 CHILDREN PARTICIPATING? >>MARK THORNTON: CHILDREN IN THE PROGRAM. I MISSTATED. >>MARK SHARPE: ARE ABSOLUTELY COMMITTING THAT IT OUGHT TO BE TO MAINTAIN THAT 3100 IN A PROGRAM, BUT THEN THE OTHER ISSUE IS -- AND THIS IS AN ISSUE OF ADJUSTMENT BECAUSE I KNOW -- I'VE GOT A SMALL CHILD, AND I KNOW HOW IT IS. YOU TAKE THEM TO ONE PROGRAM, THEY'RE WITH A COACH, THEY'RE IN A SPOT, THE MOM AND FAMILY'S COMFORTABLE, AND NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT POTENTIALLY SHIFTING THEM SOMEWHERE ELSE, IS THAT CORRECT? ONE OF OUR OPTIONS IS THEY MIGHT PARTICIPATE -- >>MARK THORNTON: WELL, THE "Y" PROGRAM PROPOSAL AND OPTION "B" IN-HOUSE KEEPS OUR CENTERS WHERE THEY WOULD BE THERE. >>MARK SHARPE: SO IT KEEPS OUR CENTERS WHERE THEY WOULD BE. >>MARK THORNTON: RIGHT. >>MARK SHARPE: SO THE PARENTS WOULD KNOW IT WOULD BE AT THE SAME CENTER? >>MARK THORNTON: RIGHT. IN FACT, WE HAVE SAID WE DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF THE PROGRAM, BUT KNOWING WHAT WE KNOW AND KNOWING THAT YOU'VE MADE COMMENTS TO US BEFORE THAT WE NEED TO WORK TO KEEP THE PROGRAM, I HAVE NOT TOLD ANYONE -- AND IN FACT, ALL I TELL IS PEOPLE THAT WE WILL HAVE A PROGRAM. I CAN'T TELL YOU DETAILS OF IT, BUT WE WILL HAVE A PROGRAM AT OUR CENTERS. >>MARK SHARPE: WHAT PROGRAM DO YOU HAVE -- BECAUSE SO MUCH IS A MATTER OF EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION. WHAT PROGRAM IS IN PLACE TO COMMUNICATE TO THE FAMILIES? I MEAN, HAVING A -- HAVING A MINIMUM GRAPH, SOMETHING RUN OFF THAT PEOPLE CAN TAKE HOME WITH THEM, I DON'T THINK THAT'S SATISFACTORY. WHAT DO WE HAVE IN PLACE TO BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH ALL THOSE FAMILIES, AND PARTICULARLY THE ONES WHERE THERE'S A FINANCIAL NEED? HOW ARE WE GOING TO COMMUNICATE TO THEM? >>MARK THORNTON: WHAT WE HAVE IS WE KNOW WHO REGISTERED LAST SPRING FOR THE SPRING. OUR REGISTRATION DAY CAMP IN THE SUMMER IS DIFFERENT, BUT WE HAVE THOSE RECORDS, AND WE CAN EASILY GENERATE A LETTER TO THEM AND EXPLAIN TO THEM IN JUST A MATTER OF NOT VERY LONG TO GET THAT LETTER OUT, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF THE WAY THAT WE'VE SET UP OUR SYSTEM. THE OTHER IS -- IS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE PROGRAM OR YOU'VE NOT BEEN IN OUR PROGRAM, WHEN YOU COME TO US FOR A -- >>MARK SHARPE: BUT IS THERE ANY THOUGHT OF HAVING AT THE PROGRAM A SESSION WHERE WE CAN -- WHERE YOU CAN MEET WITH FAMILIES AND -- AND HAVE A PERSON THERE, YOURSELF, SOMEONE ELSE FROM THE PARKS DEPARTMENT EXPLAINING TO -- I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 3100 AND THERE'S NOT A LOT OF TIME BUT TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS FACE-TO-FACE. SOMETIMES A LETTER GETS LOST, IT COMES IN WITH A BUNCH OF JUNK MAIL, PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT. I MEAN, HOW ARE WE -- I WANT US TO TAKE AN EXTRA STEP IN ORDER TO COMMUNICATE TO THE FAMILIES. >>MARK THORNTON: WE -- LAST YEAR WE SORT OF DID THE SAME THING WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT IMPLEMENTING THE FEES FOR JANUARY 1. WE HELD SEVERAL MEETINGS GEOGRAPHICALLY. WE DIDN'T HOLD THEM AT ALL CENTERS. NOT ALL CENTERS ASKED FOR THEM, AND THERE WASN'T TIME TO DO IT BEFORE THE BUDGET WAS APPROVED. THERE'S 42 SITES. SO THAT -- THAT WAS A -- THAT WAS A BIG CHALLENGE. WE CAN DO THAT. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH WE'LL -- YOU KNOW, BEING IT'S IN JULY, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ON VACATION. WE DO GET A LOT OF RESPONSE FROM THE LETTERS THAT WE SEND OUT. I -- WE'LL DO THE BEST WE CAN, AND WE DO MEET WHEN WE CAN. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER SHARPE, LET ME JUST JUMP IN REAL QUICK FOR A SECOND. PART OF THE CHALLENGE -- AND I KNOW BECAUSE I ATTENDED ONE OF THOSE MEETINGS -- IS THE COMMUNICATION BEING GIVEN IS FROM THE PARK STAFF, AND MANY OF THESE FOLKS HAVE ALREADY RECEIVED LETTERS SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO BE TERMINATED. THAT'S THE PROBLEM, AND SO THE INFORMATION THAT SOME OF THEM ARE RELAYING ARE NOT -- SOMETIMES IT'S NOT 100% ACCURATE, OR THE REALITY IS NOT ONLY DO MANY OF THE PARENTS WANT TO KEEP THE PROGRAM, NUMBER ONE, BUT NUMBER TWO, THEY WANT TO KEEP THE COACHES, SO THAT'S -- THAT'S THE RUB IS THAT THE -- THE POINT OF CONTACT FOR ALMOST ALL OF THE PARENTS ARE THE COACHES THAT ARE THERE NOW, AND MANY OF THEM HAVE ALREADY BEEN GIVEN NOTICES SAYING, YOU KNOW, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE HERE. SO THAT'S INFLUENCING THE COMMUNICATION WITH THE PARENTS. >>MARK SHARPE: AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS ADDRESSING. >>KEN HAGAN: AND THAT'S THE CHALLENGE AND THAT'S THE DIFFICULTY THAT WE'RE FACING RIGHT NOW. IS THAT CORRECT? >>MARK THORNTON: THAT'S EXACTLY CORRECT. >>KEN HAGAN: AND LAST YEAR, AGAIN, I WAS SITTING IN THE AUDIENCE WITH A HAT ON BECAUSE MY SON'S ENROLLED IN THE PROGRAM AND LISTENING TO WHAT THE PARK DIRECTOR'S SAYING AND JUST KIND OF SNUCK OUT. >>MARK THORNTON: WHEN I WENT TO THE MEETINGS, WE SPENT THE FIRST HALF OF THE MEETING TALKING ABOUT -- WELL, THE PARENTS TELLING ME THAT THEY -- JUST CUT SOMETHING ELSE, LEAVE THIS ALONE. I DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT AUTHORITY TO SAY, OKAY, AND MEETING'S OVER, WE'LL JUST LEAVE IT ALONE. I DON'T HAVE THAT. I HAVE A BUDGET THAT WE'VE BEEN GIVEN, AND MY TASK IS TO MAKE IT BALANCE WITHIN THAT BUDGET, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON. COMMISSIONER BECKNER WAS AT A WELL-ATTENDED MEETING LAST YEAR AT NORTHDALE, AND I CAN'T -- I CAN'T EXPECT THOSE EMPLOYEES THAT ARE GOING OUT THE DOOR TO -- YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T BLAME THEM. I KNOW THAT THIS IS AN EMOTIONAL TIME. I CAN'T EXPECT OR PUT THE BURDEN OF GETTING THE INFORMATION OUT TO THE PARENTS, PUT THAT BURDEN ON THEM. THAT WOULD BE FOR THOSE OF US THAT ARE GOING TO BE HERE. WE'LL STILL HAVE STAFF HERE WHETHER WE PARTNER OR NOT BECAUSE WE HAVE OTHER SERVICES, SENIOR PROGRAMS, TINY TOTS, SPECIAL INTEREST, MEETINGS, CLASSES. WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THAT TWO TO SIX GAP, THAT WE EITHER RUN IT WITH -- WITH OPTION "B" OR "C." >>MARK SHARPE: AGE TWO TO SIX? >>MARK THORNTON: I'M SORRY, TIME. 2:00 P.M. TO 6:00 P.M. I'M SORRY. >>MARK SHARPE: TIME. I KNOW THAT COMMISSIONER FERLITA -- I WAS IN WASHINGTON -- HAD GONE TO THE CHILDREN'S BOARD AND MADE THE PRESENTATION. >>ROSE FERLITA: WHEN YOU FINISH, I WANT TO GIVE YOU AND MR. HAGAN AN UPDATE. >>MARK SHARPE: I WAS GOING TO PASS IT OVER. ALL I'LL SAY WHEN WE GO BACK -- I MEAN, IT'S A CHALLENGE. I MEAN, WE WERE ABLE -- WITH MR. PAPIN, WE -- IT WAS PULLING TEETH, BUT WE WERE ABLE TO GET APPROXIMATELY A MILLION DOLLARS? >> CLOSE TO A MILLION. >>MARK SHARPE: CLOSE TO A MILLION, AND IT WAS TOUGH, BUT WE GOT IT WITH AN OLD BOARD, A BOARD THAT HAD BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME AND WAS VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THE WAY THEY DID THINGS, BUT WE WERE ABLE TO GET THE MONEY FOR A HOMELESS PROGRAM FOR CHILDREN TO PUT THEM INTO THIS, AND IT WAS A VERY GOOD PROGRAM. WE WERE SUCCESSFUL. I CAN'T MAKE ANY PROMISES. THIS BOARD, I THINK WE HAVE A VERY SENSITIVE BOARD AND THEY'LL LISTEN. WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT OUR BUDGET. WE'LL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN. I WOULD ALSO URGE FAMILIES AND THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED -- BECAUSE WE DO HAVE A CHILDREN'S BOARD THAT PROVIDES PROGRAMS TO CHILDREN -- TO COMMUNICATE THEIR INTEREST IN THIS PROGRAM TO THE -- TO THE CHILDREN'S BOARD. IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL TO HAVE THEM ATTEND THOSE MEETINGS AS WELL. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: THANK YOU, MR. HAGAN. I JUST WANT TO UPDATE YOU A LITTLE BIT. I MEAN -- AND I WANT TO BE REALISTIC IN WHAT I THOUGHT THAT WE -- WE SAW THERE. MARK -- AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'LL AGREE WITH ME ON THIS -- AND I THINK, MR. JOHNSON, YOU WERE CUT CAUGHT UP IN TRAFFIC. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WERE THERE YET WHEN THEY SAID THAT. LIKE HOW I COVERED FOR YOU? ANYWAY, I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN THEY SAID THAT ALL KIDDING ASIDE. BUT WE TALKED ABOUT WHAT, 950,000, 950,000 OR 900? >>MARK THORNTON: 950,200 FOR CHILD-CARE LICENSING, 750 FOR AFTERSCHOOL. >>ROSE FERLITA: AND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THEY WERE VERY INTENT ON, MR. HAGAN. THEY KNEW AND THEY HOPED WE KNEW THAT WE COULDN'T TELL THEM WHAT TO DO STATUTORILY OR ANY OTHER WAY, AND WE CERTAINLY WERE NOT OFFENSIVE IN TERMS OF OUR APPROACH. WE WERE RESPECTFUL OF WHAT -- IN FACT, I BELIEVE MS. OSTEEN WAS THERE JUST IN THE AUDIENCE, NOT WITH US BUT THERE NONETHELESS, AND I THANK HER FOR THAT, AND THEY PRETTY MUCH AT THE END OF IT ALL SAID, WE DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN DO THIS. WE DON'T WANT TO BE THE BAD GUYS IF WE CAN'T. AND I ADMIT IT, IT'S OUR PROBLEM, NOT YOURS, BUT WE'RE ASKING FOR HELP, AND THEY SAID, IF ANYTHING, WE WOULD BE INCLINED NOT TO LOOK AT HELPING WITH YOUR PARKS AND REC AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAM, BUT IF WE WERE AT ALL INCLINED TO HELP, AT LEAST I GOT THAT SENSE, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT LOOKING AT CHILD CARE LICENSING, SO I THINK REALISTICALLY IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, KEN, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO GET ANY DOLLARS FROM THEM, BUT MAYBE WE'LL BE PLEASANTLY SURPRISED, BUT WE WON'T KNOW UNTIL WHEN -- AUGUST 20th, IS THAT WHEN -- >>MARK SHARPE: WELL, AND I'LL TELL YOU BECAUSE I'VE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE WITH THEM TWICE WHERE THE RESPONSE -- AND I FULLY EXPECT -- AND I APOLOGIZE FOR SENDING YOU INTO THAT. >>ROSE FERLITA: IT WAS NOT BAD AT ALL. THEY WERE VERY GRACIOUS. >>MARK SHARPE: THEY'RE VERY PLEASANT, VERY NICE. BUT IN THE END, AS YOU TRY TO GET THEM TO SUPPORT THE PROGRAM, IT'S A CHALLENGE, BUT I'LL TELL YOU -- AND THAT'S MY JOB, AND -- AS A BOARD MEMBER, BUT I AM GOING TO MAKE THE CASE AS HARD AS I CAN BECAUSE THAT IS THE MISSION OF THE CHILDREN'S BOARD. WE'VE HAD THIS DEBATE OVER AND OVER, WHAT IS THEIR MISSION, WHAT DO THEY DO, WHAT -- AND THEY'VE DONE NUMEROUS STUDIES WHICH THEY -- IN WHICH THEY'VE TALKED ABOUT THE IMPACT OF THESE PROGRAMS ON -- ON CHILDREN AND HOW IT MAKES A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE, AND THAT'S OUR MISSION OVER THERE, AND SO WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THAT -- WE'RE GOING TO BE HEARD. A VOICE WILL BE HEARD. I JUST DON'T WANT US TO HAVE TO PLAN ON THOSE DOLLARS BECAUSE WE -- WE DON'T CONTROL THE CHILDREN'S BOARD, BUT WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THE STRONGEST POSSIBLE CASE WE CAN MAKE FOR A -- FOR AN AMOUNT THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE, NOT JUST A SMALL TOKEN AMOUNT, FOR AN AMOUNT THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE, SO I'M CONFIDENT -- I'M PERSONALLY CONFIDENT WE'RE GOING TO SHAKE THINGS UP A LITTLE BIT, BUT WE'LL SEE. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I WAS GOING THROUGH THIS, AND I HAD MADE SOME NOTES ABOUT THIS AS WELL, BUT I'M GOING TO DEVIATE A LITTLE BIT FROM THE CHILDREN -- I MEAN, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE CHILDREN, BUT WE KNOW THE MONEY HAS TO COME FROM SEVERAL DIFFERENT AREAS. MR. THORNTON, ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS LOOKING AT, AND I WAS WAITING -- I WAS LOOKING OUT IN THE AUDIENCE TO SEE IF GEORGE WILLIAMS WAS STILL HERE BECAUSE I WANT HIM TO WEIGH IN ON THIS A LITTLE BIT AS WELL BEING THE HUMAN RESOURCES DIRECTOR. I WAS WONDERING WHY IS IT THAT WE NEED FIVE TO SEVEN PERSONNEL OR YOUR OWN HR DEPARTMENT OUT AT PARKS AND REC WHEN WE HAVE A HUGE, HUGE HR DEPARTMENT HERE AND WE HAVE ALL THOSE EXTRANEOUS DOLLARS BEING EXPENDED OUT THERE FOR YOUR DEPARTMENT. IF YOU COULD HELP ME OUT WITH THAT. >>MARK THORNTON: WE DO ALL OF OUR -- THE PROCESSING FOR ALL OF OUR HIRES. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE MADE RECOMMENDATION IN THE BUDGET IS WE LEFT -- WE LEFT -- WE HAD FIVE, AND WE LEFT THOSE FIVE IN THERE. WE RECOMMEND THEY STAY. WHEN WE NEED THEM FOR HIRING 200-PLUS SUMMER STAFF OR IN THIS CASE IF WE GO TO MORE FULL -- PART-TIME FIELD STAFF, WE NEED -- WHEN WE NEED THEM, WE NEED THEM, BUT AFTER THE SEASONAL HIRING, THERE'S TIME AVAILABLE. NOW, WHAT -- WHAT MY RECOMMENDATION WAS IS THAT THEY TAKE ON ADDITIONAL RESPONSIBILITIES FROM OTHER DEPARTMENTS DOING THE SAME PROCESSING. WE HAVE FEWER EMPLOYEES, AND IF -- IF THE ADMINISTRATOR WANTS US TO REDUCE THAT BECAUSE WE'VE LOST EMPLOYEES -- >>KEVIN WHITE: LIKE WHAT OTHER KIND OF RESPONSIBILITIES WOULD THEY BE ASKED TO TAKE ON? >>MARK THORNTON: WELL, THE SAME THING THEY DO. IF WE'VE LOST 100 EMPLOYEES, THAT'S 100 MORE THAT WE'RE NOT PROCESSING OR MANAGING WITH BENEFITS AND QUESTIONS AND THOSE THINGS. THERE'S OTHER DEPARTMENTS WITHIN -- ACTUALLY, WE'RE SANDWICHED BETWEEN TWO DEPARTMENTS, AND OUR RECOMMENDATION IS THAT WE LOOK AT HELPING THEM OUT WITH HR BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE HR, SO THE STAFF THAT I HAVE CAN ACCOMMODATE SO MANY EMPLOYEES. IF WE'VE LOST A HUNDRED, THEY COULD ACCEPT A HUNDRED FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. WHEN I SAY ACCEPT A HUNDRED OR MANAGE A HUNDRED, THAT'S THE CURRENT FULL-TIME -- WE DIVIDE THEM BY ALPHABET, AND THAT - - IF YOUR LAST NAME STARTS WITH AN "S," THEN YOU GO TO THIS ADMINISTRATOR. >>KEVIN WHITE: I MEAN, I -- I KIND OF UNDERSTAND THE THEORY IN WHICH YOU'RE -- YOU'RE EXPLAINING THAT AND THE REALM THAT YOU'RE EXPLAINING IT, BUT WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT EVERY OTHER DEPARTMENT, LOOKING AT DUPLICATIVE SERVICES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY, I MEAN, THAT WAS ONE THAT JUST STOOD OUT AT ME AS HAVING YOUR OWN HR DEPARTMENT WHEN WE HAVE SUCH A -- SUCH A MASSIVE HR DEPARTMENT HERE. IT SEEMS LIKE THEY OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO BE CAPABLE AND QUALIFIED TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE THAT RESPONSIBILITY, AND IF YOU'VE GOT THE PART-TIME EMPLOYEES OR THE SEASONAL EMPLOYEES THAT ARE TURNING IN THEIR APPLICATION, I DON'T SEE WHY THEY SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TURN THEM IN HERE DOWN AT THE COUNTY CENTER, AND I -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE UNDER THE THEME OF DOING MORE WITH LESS, AND THAT'S WHAT -- YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO AS WELL, SO THAT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT I'M GOING TO BE SERIOUSLY LOOKING AT, SO JUST -- JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, GIVE YOU A HEADS UP. I JUST DON'T THINK A TOTALLY SEPARATE HR DEPARTMENT JUST FOR PARKS AND RECREATION IS -- IS A NECESSITY WHEN WE HAVE A HUGE HR DEPARTMENT RIGHT DOWN HERE ON THE 16th FLOOR. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: YEAH, PAT -- AND I GUESS ALSO -- WITH THESE NUMBERS HERE, EITHER -- EITHER OR BOTH -- I THINK THIS GOES BACK TO A FURTHER DISCUSSION AND I GUESS A PUBLIC HEARING OR MEETING OR WHATEVER, BUT IF WE'VE GOT TO MAKE A DECISION SOON HERE, HAVE ALL THE FEES AND ALL OF THE ADJUSTMENTS AND EVERYTHING THAT YOU-ALL HAVE BEEN WORKING ON COORDINATING WITH THE PARKS AND IS IT IN THIS -- IS IT IN THESE NUMBERS, OR IS -- ARE WE MAKING A DECISION ON THESE NUMBERS OR ARE THESE THE FINAL NUMBERS OR ARE YOU-ALL STILL LOOKING AT ADJUSTMENT CHANGES AND DIFFERENT THOUGHTS ON OTHER THINGS YOU-ALL HAD PROPOSED EARLIER? >>PAT BEAN: WELL, THERE ARE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT WE STILL HAVE OUT THERE THAT ARE -- WE'RE DEVELOPING TO BRING BACK A PACKAGE RECOMMENDATION, LIKE YOU'VE ASKED ME ABOUT THE COMMUNICATION SERVICES TAX. THERE ARE MORE THINGS THAN THAT THAT GO INTO POTENTIALLY BEING A WAY TO HELP RESOLVE THAT. >>KEN HAGAN: WELL, MARK, I THINK THE SENTIMENT OF THE BOARD IS OBVIOUSLY NUMBER ONE, WE WANT TO KEEP THE PROGRAM. NUMBER TWO, WE WANT TO DO -- FOR THERE TO REMAIN AS MUCH STABILITY AS POSSIBLE AS FAR AS OBVIOUSLY KEEPING IT AT OUR LOCATIONS AND TO THE GREATEST EXTENT POSSIBLE KEEPING, YOU KNOW, AS MANY OF OUR FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES -- I MEAN, I REALIZE THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME REDUCTION, THERE ARE GOING TO BE IN EVERY DEPARTMENT, BUT BEING ABLE TO KEEP AS MANY OF OUR COACHES AS POSSIBLE. I MEAN, I KNOW THAT'S WHAT -- THE SENTIMENT OF, YOU KNOW, THE PARENTS THAT I SPEAK WITH AND COMMUNICATE WITH, SO -- >>MARK THORNTON: THEN -- I JUST -- I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE WITHOUT ASKING THE QUESTION, SO WE WANT TO GO BACK TO OPTION "A"? IS -- BECAUSE I -- I DON'T KNOW -- AND WE ALL AGREE AND UNDERSTAND -- >>JIM NORMAN: I THINK WE GO TO "A" UNTIL WE DON'T HAVE TO. THAT'S -- >>MARK THORNTON: OKAY. >>JIM NORMAN: [INAUDIBLE] MAKE IT WORK. >>KEN HAGAN: OBVIOUSLY WE WANT TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN. THAT -- MY OPENING STATEMENT WAS TO KEEP THE PROGRAM WHOLE TO THE GREATEST EXTENT, YOU KNOW, POSSIBLE, SO I THINK COMMISSIONER NORMAN SAID IT RIGHT. >>JIM NORMAN: RIGHT. >>KEN HAGAN: AS LONG AS WE CAN STAY -- >>JIM NORMAN: THAT'S ONE OF THOSE -- I HATE TO PUT HIM IN A BAD SPOT, BUT THAT'S ONE OF THOSE AT THE LAST, YOU KNOW - - WHEN IT'S DOWN TO THE LAST NICKEL AND WE'VE GOT TO MAKE THE -- WE'VE GOT TO PULL IT -- HOWEVER, SOMETHING, COMMISSIONER HAGAN, YOU SAID, IF THERE'S LETTERS OUT THERE, I THINK AT THE EARLIEST NOTICE YOU START TURNING THE SHIP AROUND AND SAY THERE'S GOING TO BE A PROGRAM, NONE OF THE STUFF ABOUT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO HAVE JOBS OUT THERE, THERE'S GOING TO BE A PROGRAM IN OUR CENTERS FOR THOSE KIDS, AND THAT MESSAGE, LIKE COMMISSIONER HAGAN WAS SITTING IN THE AUDIENCE -- I'M GLAD YOU WERE WEARING A HAT. [LAUGHTER] >>PAT BEAN: AND DARK GLASSES. >>JIM NORMAN: BUT YOU'VE GOT TO GET THAT MESSAGE OUT AND GET IT OUT NOW, BUT IF THE LAST SYNOPSIS OF THAT -- THAT CHART, YOU GET TO THE BOTTOM LINE. THAT'S WHERE YOU -- THAT'S WHEN YOU'D GO TO "B." >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: YEAH. OOPS, I HIT -- I DIDN'T MEAN TO HIT IT AGAIN. JUST TO MAKE SURE I WAS CLEAR ON THESE ITEMS THAT -- I KNOW WE'VE HAD THE DISCUSSION THAT WERE INTENDED TO BE FLAGGED, TO FIND FURTHER SAVINGS -- AND I KNOW THAT -- I THINK YOUR COMMUNITY SERVICE BOARD -- I THINK WHAT YOU WERE BRINGING UP, MR. BECKNER -- I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT GOT PROPERLY FLAGGED AND SECONDED, BUT THE CIVIL SERVICE EMERGENCY DISPATCH, EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT, EMERGENCY TELEPHONE 911, FLEET MANAGEMENT, HIPAA COMPLIANCE, HUMAN RESOURCE, LAW LIBRARY, LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION, PROCUREMENT SERVICE, SECURITY SERVICES, AND CAFETERIA PROGRAM ARE THE ONES THAT I HAD FLAGGED FOR FURTHER REVIEW FOR REDUCTIONS OR TO FIND SAVINGS TO FUND THESE PROGRAMS WHERE WE'RE LOOKING FOR MONEY, WHETHER IT'S COACHES FOR KIDS OR FOR THE VICTIMS ASSISTANCE OR FOR THE PROGRAM THAT WE HAVE HERE, BUT I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT TOTALLY CLEAR THOSE WERE WHAT I HAD FLAGGED. >>KEN HAGAN: YOU WANTED TO FLAG THOSE ITEMS. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: YES. >>KEN HAGAN: AND I'LL SECOND THAT WITH YOU. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: OKAY. WE GOT IT AGAIN. THANK YOU SO MUCH. >>KEN HAGAN: AND JUST ONE OTHER ITEM THAT I WANTED TO FLAG SINCE MARK WAS HERE, WAS TO FLAG THE REGIONAL PARKS ITEM THAT THE RECOMMENDATION WAS TO CLOSE FOR TWO DAYS A WEEK. >> SECOND. >>KEN HAGAN: I WANTED TO GO AHEAD SINCE MARK WAS HERE AND FLAG THAT AS WELL. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. IT'S ALMOST 4:15. WE HAVE A 6:00 PUBLIC HEARING THIS EVENING AT ALL PEOPLES LIFE CENTER TO GO OVER THE BUDGET. ANY OTHER COMMENTS THAT WE NEED FOR THIS AFTERNOON? OKAY. WITH THAT, THANK EVERYONE FOR THEIR PATIENCE, AND OUR NEXT BUDGET WORKSHOP IS ON JULY 22nd. WE'RE ADJOURNED. 1