CAPTIONING JUNE 11, 2009 BOCC WORKSHOP BUDGET ***This is not an official, verbatim transcript of the ***following meeting. It should be used for informational ***purposes only. This document has not been edited; ***therefore, there may be additions, deletions, or words ***that did not translate. >>KEN HAGAN: GOOD AFTERNOON, AND WELCOME TO THE JUNE 11th, 2009, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY BUDGET WORKSHOP. AT THIS TIME I'M GOING TO PASS THINGS OVER TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR TO INTRODUCE TODAY'S AGENDA. >>PAT BEAN: YES, COMMISSIONERS. WE ARE HERE TODAY TO CONTINUE OUR DISCUSSIONS REGARDING THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY BUDGET FOR 2010 AND 2011. I'M GOING TO TAKE ONE MOMENT BEFORE I START, THOUGH, BECAUSE IT APPEARS THAT SOME FOLKS ARE THINKING THAT WE'RE NOT REALLY ABOUT THE EFFORT AROUND HERE OF TRYING TO DO BETTER AND IMPROVE THE WAY WE DO OUR WORK. AND I WANTED TO TAKE A MOMENT TO SHOW YOU THAT SHARON SUBADAN FROM FLEET MANAGEMENT HAS BEEN NAMED FOR THE SECOND YEAR IN A ROW THE NUMBER ONE PUBLIC FLEET IN THE NATION, AND SHE'S THE FIRST AND ONLY ONE TO EVER WIN IT TWO YEARS CONSECUTIVELY. [APPLAUSE] I THINK THAT'S PRETTY DARN GOOD. NOW, LET US GET INTO THE DISCUSSION THAT WE'RE HERE TO HAVE TODAY. THE BOARD HAD ASKED US TO LOOK AT SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WERE RAISED AT THE PUBLIC HEARING THE OTHER NIGHT, AND WE ARE HERE TO TALK ABOUT ANIMAL SERVICES; PARKS, RECREATION, AND CONSERVATION; AND CHILDREN'S SERVICES. THOSE ARE DEPARTMENTS WHERE THREE OF THE ISSUES WERE HEARD VERY LOUDLY DURING THE DISCUSSIONS THE OTHER NIGHT. WE DO HAVE AN OPTION THAT WE THINK THE BOARD OUGHT TO CONSIDER, BUT I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT TOTALLY IN LIEU OF FEES, I'M RECOMMENDING IT AS AN ADDITIONAL WAY TO HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEM AND TO TRY TO RETAIN THE FEES AT PERHAPS LOWER LEVELS THAN WE WOULD OTHERWISE NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO MAKE UP THE SHORTFALLS, AND THAT IS THAT YOU DO HAVE A TAX THAT THIS BOARD HAS NEVER FULLY IMPLEMENTED, AND WE'RE NOT EVEN RECOMMENDING THAT YOU FULLY IMPLEMENT IT NOW, THAT IS A FEE THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS PROVIDED US. IT'S THE COMMUNICATIONS TAX. YOU CURRENTLY DO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PORTIONS OF THAT TAX BUT NOT THE WHOLE THING. YOU HAVE THE CAPACITY TO GO ANOTHER PERCENT AND A HALF? >>ERIC JOHNSON: 1.22. >>PAT BEAN: 1.22 IS WHAT YOU COULD RAISE. WE WOULD NOT RECOMMEND YOU GO ALL THE WAY TO 1 -- TO THE MAXIMUM, BUT IF YOU RAISE THAT BY 1%, THAT WOULD HELP US IN RESOLVING THE ISSUE. IT IS NOT A TAX INCREASE, IT'S A USER FEE INCREASE. THE FEE IS GENERATED BY ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO USE CELL PHONES. AS YOU KNOW, MOST EVERYBODY TODAY HAS A CELL PHONE, AND IF -- IF YOU USE A CELL PHONE, THERE IS A FEE THAT IS CONNECTED TO THAT USE THAT COULD HELP US TO SOLVE SOME OF OUR PROBLEMS. AGAIN, I'M NOT RECOMMENDING THAT TO BE THE SOLE SOLUTION BECAUSE I DO NOT BELIEVE IT SOLVES ALL THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE, BUT IT WOULD BE A START TO REDUCING WHAT WE MIGHT HAVE TO ASK FOLKS TO PAY IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE THE SERVICES THAT WE HAD BEEN LOOKING AT NOT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD. I WOULD ASK YOU TO KEEP THAT IN MIND. WE'RE PREPARED TO GO THROUGH NOW AND TALK ABOUT EACH ONE OF THOSE PROGRAM AREAS AND THE FEES THAT WOULD BE RECOMMENDED. AS YOU RECALL, IN BOTH ANIMAL SERVICE -- WELL, IN ALL THREE, ANIMAL SERVICES, PARKS, AND ALSO CHILDREN'S SERVICES RELATED TO THE CHILD-CARE LICENSING PROGRAM, YOU HEARD FROM PEOPLE SAYING INCREASE THE FEE OR CREATE A FEE, AND SO WE'RE PREPARED TO TALK YOU THROUGH THAT NOW, BUT I DO THINK YOU NEED TO KEEP IN THE BACK OF YOUR MIND THAT YOU DO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO INCREASE THAT COMMUNICATIONS FEE BY 1%. >>KEN HAGAN: NOW, ARE YOU REFERENCING ANY PARTICULAR DEPARTMENT OR SERVICE THAT THIS USER FEE COULD BE APPLIED TOWARD OR JUST SAYING -- >>PAT BEAN: WELL, WHAT I'M THINKING IS IT COULD BE USED TO HELP OFFSET SOME OF THE COSTS FOR EACH OF THOSE WHERE WE'VE HAD TO CUT THE PROGRAMS SO DRAMATICALLY IN ANIMAL SERVICES, PARKS AND REC, AND ALSO CHILDREN'S SERVICES CHILD-CARE LICENSING FUNCTION. >>KEN HAGAN: AND I ASSUME AT A FUTURE WORKSHOP YOU WOULD - - YOU WOULD PROVIDE US WITH -- WITH REVENUE PROJECTIONS OR THOSE TYPES OF THINGS OR MORE DETAILED INFORMATION? >>PAT BEAN: WELL, I THINK ERIC MAY BE PREPARED TO GIVE YOU SOME -- ERIC. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE HELPFUL BECAUSE I KNOW WE'RE GOING TO BE GOING AROUND TALKING ABOUT HOW WE CAN MAKE THINGS MORE EFFICIENT, WHAT ARE OUR DIFFERENT FUNDING OPTIONS, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT AS WE'RE GOING ALONG OR THAT AT SOME POINT IN TIME WE CAN GET A COMPREHENSIVE FUNDING OPTION SCHEDULE THAT WOULD SHOW US, OKAY, THESE ARE THE DIFFERENT FEES THAT WE COULD CONSIDER, THESE ARE ALL THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT WE COULD INCREASE OUR REVENUES SO THAT AS WE START GOING INTO OUR FINAL DELIBERATIONS, WE KNOW WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE IF WE NEED -- IF WE CUT EVERYTHING DOWN AND GET EVERYTHING AS EFFICIENT AS WE CAN BUT YET WE NEED TO MAKE DETERMINATION WHETHER WE NEED TO GET ADDITIONAL INCOME OR CUT -- MAKE ADDITIONAL CUTS, CAN WE JUST HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF WHAT ALL OF OUR OPTIONS ARE AROUND THAT? >>PAT BEAN: SURE. >>KEVIN BECKNER: OKAY. I'D APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: WELL, FOR THIS BOARD MEMBER, ANYWAY, THE ONE THING YOU DIDN'T THROW OUT THAT -- IN YOUR DELIVERABLES IN YOUR BUDGET IS THAT STICKER SHOCK FOR ME IS THERE WAS A PROPERTY TAX INCREASE INTO THIS BUDGET. >>PAT BEAN: YES. >>JIM NORMAN: AND WHATEVER YOU DO, WHEREVER YOU GO, THIS COMMISSIONER WILL NOT SUPPORT ANY PROPERTY TAX INCREASE, AND THAT SHOULD BE -- PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR HOMES, AND WHATEVER YOU DO OUT THERE, THIS COMMISSIONER WILL NOT SUPPORT ANY PROPERTY TAX INCREASE. >>PAT BEAN: THAT'S CORRECT, AND COMMISSIONER, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T THINK TO INCLUDE THAT IN MY -- MY COMMENTS. IF YOU ARE GOING TO BOND MONIES FOR ELAPP, WHICH THE PEOPLE VOTED THAT THEY WANTED YOU TO DO THAT, THEY DIDN'T KNOW AT THE TIME THEY DID THAT THAT THAT WOULD MEAN THERE WOULD BE A TAX INCREASE, BUT WHEN THE MARKET IS DOWN LIKE IT IS, THERE ISN'T ANY WAY TO AVOID A TAX INCREASE IF YOU GO OUT FOR BONDS EXCEPT IF WE USE SOME OF THIS COMMUNICATION TAX MONEY TO BE ABLE TO HELP OFFSET THAT, AND SO THAT IS A VERY IMPORTANT PIECE OF THAT TAX. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: THANK YOU, AND I -- >>PAT BEAN: FEE. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: -- MIRROR AND HAVE THE SAME FEELINGS AS MR. NORMAN ON THIS. I'M HESITANT ON USER FEES AND DISCUSSIONS OF TAX THAT WE'RE GOING TO CALL A USER FEE AT THIS -- AT THIS POINT. I WANT TO SEE WHAT THE FINAL ESTIMATES OF REVENUE ARE GOING TO BE. IN ADDITION, WE'VE -- WE HAVE OTHER AREAS TO LOOK FOR CUTS. I SPOKE TODAY AT A KIWANIS CLUB IN BRANDON AND A ROTARY CLUB IN TAMPA, AND PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE STOMACH FOR AN INCREASE IN TAXES AND FEES FROM -- THEY WERE LOOKING TO US TO LOOK INTERNALLY TO SEE WHERE WE LIVE WITHIN OUR MEANS BEFORE WE GO OUT AND START RAISING FEES AND RATES, SO I WANT TO HEAR IT. I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE THE DEBATE, AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT, BUT FEEDBACK I GET FROM THE PUBLIC AS I'M OUT RIGHT NOW IS YOU BETTER BE LOOKING INSIDE, SO -- AND THAT'S NOT DIRECTED AT YOU. I DIDN'T MEAN WHEN I SAID THAT TO LOOK STRAIGHT AT YOU, PAT, BUT THE FEEDBACK I'M GETTING FROM THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE, WHO VOTE HERE, AND PAY TAXES -- WHICH MAY NOT ALL BE THE SAME, BUT THEY'RE SOUNDING OFF PRETTY LOUD, SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. NORMAN. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU, AGAIN, MR. CHAIR. AND I WOULD ECHO THOSE SENTIMENTS. I DON'T THINK ANY ONE OF US WANT TO RAISE TAXES OR FEES. WHAT WE NEED TO BE AT THIS POINT I THINK IN THIS WORKSHOP, AGAIN, IS DOING WHAT WE CAN TO CREATE EFFICIENCIES, TO WORK WITH WHAT WE'VE GOT, AND TO CUT AS MUCH AS WE CAN, AND -- AGAIN, TO MAKE OUR GOVERNMENT MORE EFFICIENT. AT THE END OF THE DAY, THOUGH, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO IS IF THERE ARE HOLES STILL LEFT AFTER WE'VE CREATED ALL THESE EFFICIENCIES, WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO KNOW WHAT OUR OPTIONS ARE, AND THAT'S WHY I'M -- I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF WE LOOK AT ALL ACROSS THE BOARD WHAT DIFFERENT TYPES OF FEES AND EVERYTHING ELSE ADDS UP TO, WE NEED TO KNOW WHERE THE DIFFERENT POTS OF MONEY COULD POTENTIALLY BE BECAUSE, AGAIN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE IS THAT ARE WE GOING TO -- ARE WE GOING TO GIVE UP SERVICES TO OUR CHILDREN, TO OUR COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO, AND THEN IF WE'RE NOT WILLING TO GIVE UP THOSE SERVICES, OBVIOUSLY REVENUES HAVE TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE, BUT WE JUST NEED TO KNOW WHAT OUR OPTIONS ARE, BUT I AGREE WITH ALL OF YOU THAT RIGHT NOW I THINK IT'S PREMATURE TO TALK ABOUT INCREASING FEES AND TAXES AND EVERYTHING ELSE. WE NEED TO MAKE OUR GOVERNMENT AS EFFICIENT AS WE CAN, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE GOING TO NEED WHAT OUR OPTIONS ARE. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. >>JIM NORMAN: CAN I SAY ONE OTHER THING, COMMISSIONER? >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: WELL, IN ALL DUE RESPECT, COMMISSIONER, OUR BUDGET WAS DELIVERED TO US WITH A PROPERTY TAX INCREASE IN IT, SO THE RESPONSE I'M -- I AM RIGHT NOW IS WE GOT BETTER WORK TO DO AS IT RELATES TO -- THOSE PROPERTY TAX INCREASES FROM MY PERSPECTIVE ARE GOING AWAY. WHAT I -- ALONG THE LINES OF COMMISSIONER BECKNER WAS SAYING, I -- YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT BEGS THE QUESTION, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE ANIMAL SERVICES AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL THESE DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, FEES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND I KNOW THIS IS DATA FOR THE FUTURE, BUT, SEE, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT -- ARE WE -- ARE WE KILLING - - YOU KNOW, LIKE CHILD-CARE LICENSING THE OTHER NIGHT, I'D LIKE TO SEE WHAT THE RATES OF THOSE FEES ARE IN SURROUNDING COUNTIES, WHAT CHILD -- AND ANIMAL SERVICES AND WHATEVER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THAT WE HAVE AT LEAST A BASIS THAT IT'S FAIR AND EQUITABLE IN THE REGION THAT WE'RE IN, THAT WE'RE NOT KILLING ANIMAL SERVICES OR CHILD-CARE OR WHATEVER IT IS, THAT WE'RE -- IF THEY'RE WILLING TO TAKE ON THOSE FEES, I'D LAKE TO -- AND I KNOW THAT'S WHAT I HEARD FROM THE PODIUM, THAT THEY'RE WILLING TO KEEP THEIR LICENSING ALIVE FOR A FEE, BUT I THINK IN OUR FUTURE DATA AND INFORMATION, WE NEED TO SEE ACROSS THE BOARD EVERYTHING THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING AND TALKING ABOUT WHERE WE STAND AS A COUNTY. WE STILL WANT TO BE, AFTER ALL IS SAID AND DONE, AS LOW OR LOWER THAN ANYONE, WE WANT TO BE MORE INTERNALLY -- AS COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM WAS SAYING, INTERNALLY SOUND AS FAR AS THE CUTS AND THE OFFERINGS THAT WE HAVE. I WANT -- WE WANT OUR CITIZENS TO BOUNCE BACK QUICKER, AND THAT'S -- AND THAT'S WHERE I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM THERE. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>MARK SHARPE: AND I'LL JUST -- I'M GOING TO JOIN IN. I THINK THAT COMMISSIONER NORMAN PRETTY MUCH SLAMMED THE DOOR SHUT ON ANY DISCUSSION OF A MILLAGE INCREASE OF ANY SORT. I -- I BROUGHT IT UP LAST -- AT OUR LAST MEETING, AND I'LL BRING IT UP AGAIN. I THINK I WAS THE ONE LONE NO VOTE ON THE BUDGET THAT WE HAD AT THE CHILDREN'S BOARD BECAUSE IT WAS A VERY MODEST ADJUSTMENT UPWARD, BUT I FELT IT WAS JUST, YOU KNOW, THE WRONG MESSAGE, AND SO I APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS OF COMMISSIONER NORMAN. I DO THINK, THOUGH, THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT SCHEDULES. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WAYS THAT CAN CONTINUE TO PROVIDE SERVICE, COMMISSIONER BECKNER ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE USER SERVICES WHERE INDIVIDUALS ARE MAKING A CONSCIOUS DECISION THAT THEY WANT TO USE A CERTAIN PROGRAM ABOVE AND BEYOND THE BASIC SERVICES WE PROVIDE AS A COUNTY, AND IF WE CAN CONTINUE TO PERHAPS PROVIDE MORE WITH A FEE SCHEDULE, WE SHOULD SEE THAT. I WOULD -- I WOULD ALSO, THOUGH, WANT TO STRESS AGAIN I WISH WE HAD DONE MORE COORDINATION WITH SOME OF THESE AGENCIES BEFORE WE GOT TO THIS POINT, BUT I THINK IT'S ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL THAT WITH SOME OF THEM, IN PARTICULAR WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CHILDREN'S BOARD AND OTHERS, WE NEED TO BE SITTING DOWN WITH THEM. YOU TALKED ABOUT THE OTHER ENTITIES THAT YOU WANTED US TO HELP YOU WITH, GOING TO AND SPEAKING TO THEM. WELL, WE'LL DO THAT, BUT I WANT TO, AGAIN -- TO ENCOURAGE YOU AS WELL. WE DON'T HAVE THE LUXURY OF ASKING PEOPLE TO SIT DOWN AND TALK WITH US ANYMORE. I MEAN, NOW IT'S -- I THINK THE VOTERS EXPECT IT, SO PEOPLE NEED TO BE SITTING DOWN WITH A VERY CLEAR UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY WE DO THINGS, AND SO I'M -- AND I APPRECIATE THE WAY YOU'VE WELCOMED WITH OPEN ARMS MR. BELDEN, WHO WILL HELP US AS WELL DISCOVER NEW WAYS THAT I HOPE WILL MAKE US EVEN MORE EFFICIENT AND CONSOLIDATE SOME OF THE SERVICES. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I GUESS THESE CONVERSATIONS WILL GO IN WHATEVER WAY THEY GO, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE'RE STARTING A POLL AT LEAST WHERE EACH OF US ARE GOING IN TERMS OF THOUGHT PROCESS AND INCREASE IN MILLAGE, HOWEVER SLIGHT, AND I AGREE, IT APPEARS WITH THE MAJORITY OF MY COLLEAGUES, THAT ALTHOUGH WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE SOME TOUGH DECISIONS, THAT FOR ME IS NOT GOING TO BE AN OPTION, VERY SIMPLY PUT BECAUSE THE CITIZENS DECIDED BASED ON AMENDMENT 1 THAT THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE SOME ADVANTAGES IN TERMS OF CAPS AND THOSE TYPE OF THINGS ON PROPERTY TAXES, SO IF THEY GOT SOME RELIEF THERE AND THEN WE TURN AROUND AND INCREASE THE MILLAGE, WHAT THEY'RE SAVING IN THE LEFT HAND WE'RE TAKING BACK IN THE RIGHT, SO ALTHOUGH WE WILL HAVE TO LOOK AT OTHER THINGS TO OFFSET WHAT WE DO WANT TO SAVE, THAT FOR ME AS WELL, JUST TO PUT MY OPINION ON THE TABLE, IS NOT GOING TO BE SOMETHING I'M GOING TO SUPPORT. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. MRS. BEAN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO START, ANIMAL SERVICES? >>PAT BEAN: I WANT TO MAKE ONE COMMENT. I DON'T WANT ANYBODY TO THINK THAT THE BUDGET BROUGHT TO YOU CAME TO YOU WITH A RECOMMENDED MILLAGE INCREASE. IT DID NOT. IT CAME TO YOU, HOWEVER, SUCH THAT IF YOU ISSUE ELAPP BONDS CONSISTENT WITH THE VOTE OF THE PEOPLE, THAT IS WHAT WOULD DRIVE THE MILLAGE TO AN INCREASE, AND THAT'S WHY WE WANTED YOU TO KNOW ABOUT THAT, SO THAT YOU KNOW YOU HAVE OPTIONS THERE. EITHER YOU CAN DO THAT VERY MODEST INCREASE THAT WOULD COME WITH SOME BOND FUNDING OF ELAPP, BUT IF YOU WANT TO AVOID THAT, WE NEED THAT DIRECTION, AND I THINK IT'S VERY CLEAR WE HAVE IT, AND WE KNOW THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO EVEN HAVE THAT SMALL INCREASE FOR ELAPP, AND THAT'S THE REASON THERE WOULD BE AN INCREASE. THERE IS NO INCREASE RECOMMENDED. >>ERIC JOHNSON: THERE IS. EXISTING DEBT. >>PAT BEAN: OH, I'M SORRY. EXISTING DEBT TOO. I'M SORRY. I FORGOT ABOUT THE EXISTING DEBT. I'M THINKING ONLY OF ELAPP. SO YOU WOULD NEED TO GIVE US THAT DIRECTION, AND I THINK WE'VE GOT IT HERE TODAY. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. COMMISSIONER FERLITA, THEN WE NEED TO BEGIN WITH THE AGENDA. >>ROSE FERLITA: JUST VERY QUICKLY, MS. BEAN, I DON'T THINK IT WAS ANYWHERE INTENDED THAT YOU-ALL PRESUGGESTED THAT WE DO THAT. YOU'RE GIVING US THE OPTIONS, AND THAT'S WHERE WE START ON THIS BUDGET. LATER ON IN OUR PROGRAM -- THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I ASKED YOU, ERIC, TO GIVE ME SOME OF THOSE DIFFERENT REPORTS THAT SHOWED ME LINE ITEMS. THERE ARE THINGS PERHAPS THAT ARE IN THERE THAT ARE IN THERE BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE START, AND BY GOING BACK AND DISSECTING THAT, PERHAPS, THAT IS SOMETHING ELSE THAT IS NOT FIXED AT THIS POINT BUT IT'S A STARTING POINT, SO I UNDERSTAND THAT, PAT. >>PAT BEAN: OKAY. >>KEN HAGAN: ANIMAL SERVICES. >>PAT BEAN: UH-HUH. >>MANUS O'DONNELL: GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M MANUS O'DONNELL, ADMINISTRATOR FOR HUMAN SERVICES. YOU SHOULD HAVE -- OR PAT, HAS IT BEEN PASSED OUT TO THEM? >>PAT BEAN: [INAUDIBLE] >>MANUS O'DONNELL: I'VE PREPARED A SUMMARY FOR EACH OF THE DEPARTMENTS THAT I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR, AND I THINK THAT IT WILL MAKE IT VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT THE CUTS ARE, WHAT THE IMPACT WOULD BE ON THE PUBLIC. AS YOU'RE GATHERING THEM -- I HAVE ALL FOUR OF THEM ARE ATTACHED TO WHAT YOU'RE GETTING RIGHT NOW THAT WILL BE COVERED TODAY FOR MY TEAM, AND THEY'RE IN ORDER OF WHAT THE AGENDA -- HOW THAT WAS PREPARED. I'LL START WITH ANIMAL SERVICES. ANIMAL SERVICES TURNED IN EFFICIENCIES OF $417,000. ONE OF THE FIRST DECISION UNITS WAS TO CLOSE TO THE PUBLIC ON MONDAY. THEY WOULD STILL BE OPEN FIVE DAYS A WEEK TO THE PUBLIC, INCLUDING SATURDAYS. THEY WOULD ELIMINATE NUISANCE DOG RESPONSE AND NUISANCE CAT RESPONSES. THERE HAVE BEEN 950 CALLS FOR BARKING AND NUISANCE DOGS, AND 2,000 CALLS FOR NUISANCE CATS. DROPPING DOWN FURTHER, THE -- THERE WOULD BE NO ANIMAL CRUELTY INVESTIGATIONS. THERE'S CURRENTLY ABOUT 290 YEAR, AND THERE WOULD BE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR DOG FIGHTING CALLS. WE WOULD ALSO REDUCE ADOPTION AND VETERINARY SERVICES. ADOPTIONS WILL BE REDUCED FROM 5900 TO 1300, AND WE WOULD HAVE TO ELIMINATE 3300 STERILIZATIONS. PUBLIC SAFETY AND ANIMAL CARE WOULD BE REDUCED. WE'D ELIMINATE 26,400 ANIMAL ENFORCEMENT RESPONSES. WE WOULD ALSO ELIMINATE NINE ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICERS. WITH THAT, THEY WOULD ONLY HAVE ONE-THIRD OF THE ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICERS AVAILABLE FOR RESPONSES. THEREFORE, THEY'D ONLY BE ABLE TO HANDLE 10,000 OUT OF THE 33,000 CALLS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE. THERE WOULD BE NO CRUELTY INVESTIGATIONS. THE ONLY RESPONSE THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE WITH THE BUDGET THE WAY THAT IT'S PRESENTED FOR FY 11 -- AND I'LL CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO THAT BEING FY 11 -- WOULD BE FOR DANGEROUS DOGS, AND THERE'S ABOUT 940 DANGEROUS DOG CALLS A YEAR, SO THIS SHEET IS BROKEN DOWN INTO WHAT THE IMPACT IS IN FY 10, WHAT THE ADDITIONAL IMPACT WOULD BE IN FY 11. IN FY 10 THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF FUNDING REDUCED WOULD BE A LITTLE OVER $1.5 MILLION AND 26 POSITIONS. IN FY 11 THAT JUMPS UP TO A REDUCTION OF $2.7 MILLION WITH 45 POSITIONS REDUCED. IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS, BILL ARMSTRONG IS HERE. HE IS THE EXPERT IN THIS AREA, AND HE -- I WANTED TO MAKE THIS BRIEF, AND BILL CAN BE VERY BRIEF, BUT WE WANTED TO HAVE THIS BRIEF AND THEN HAVE THE EXPERT ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE. >>MARK SHARPE: GOOD JOB, MANUS. COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: MR. ARMSTRONG, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. I'M CERTAINLY ULTIMATELY AT THE END OF MY CONVERSATION HERE GOING TO ASK THE ADMINISTRATION TO FLAG THIS WITH SOME RECOMMENDATIONS THAT I MIGHT MAKE, BUT LOOKING AT PAGE 31 IN THE BUDGET REDUCTION PLAN GENERAL FUNDS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EFFICIENCIES THAT ARE -- THAT ITEMIZED HERE, BUT OBVIOUSLY IT'S SAYING WITHOUT ANY SERVICE IMPACTS. OKAY? >>BILL ARMSTRONG: YES, MA'AM. >>ROSE FERLITA: SO THOSE REALLY SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES WITHOUT ANY SERVICE IMPACTS, SO THAT'S NOT WHERE I WANT TO TARGET MY -- MY -- MY DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT WE CAN DO SO THAT WE CAN COMPENSATE FOR THINGS THAT ARE ON 34. 34, OBVIOUSLY -- PAGE 34 UNDER ANIMAL SERVICES, REDUCING ANIMAL CRUELTY INVESTIGATORS, REDUCING ADOPTION SERVICES, REDUCTION OF OPERATIONS TO A MINIMUM SERVICE LEVEL, THAT GOES IN FY 11, SO I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THAT BECAUSE WHERE I'M WORKING IS I'M TRYING TO -- TO LOOK AT THE DOLLARS AND COMPETE WITH THOSE DOLLARS THAT ARE GOING TO AFFECT ANIMAL CRUELTY RESPONSES AND SERVICE RESPONSES AND TRY TO OFFSET THEM BY THE FINE WORK THAT THE ANIMAL RIGHTS ADVOCATES AND RESCUE GROUPS AND HUMANE SOCIETY AND VOLUNTEERS AND EVERYBODY ELSE DID, SO THAT'S WHERE I WANT TO GO. NOW, I BELIEVE THAT MR. NORMAN SAID SOMETHING EARLIER ABOUT COMPARISONS. I KNOW THAT THE GROUP THAT PROVIDED ME WITH THIS CHART ON PROPOSED INCREASED FEES HAVE THEIR HEART IN THE RIGHT PLACE BECAUSE TYPICALLY MOST OF THESE FEES ARE GOING TO AFFECT THEM MORE THAN THE NONANIMAL-LOVING POPULATION THAT PERHAPS DOESN'T HAVE PETS, SO THEY'RE OKAY WITH THAT. I UNDERSTAND THEY DID SOME POLLING, AND THE CONSENSUS WAS THAT THOSE INCREASES WERE OKAY, BUT JUST TO ADDRESS WHAT MR. NORMAN REFERENCED -- AND I THINK IT'S A VERY GOOD POINT -- HOW DO WE LOOK IN COMPARISON TO -- TO SURROUNDING MUNICIPALITIES, CITIES, ET CETERA, IN TERMS OF FEES? >>BILL ARMSTRONG: BILL ARMSTRONG, DIRECTOR OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY ANIMAL SERVICES. COMMISSIONER, I DO HAVE A HANDOUT I'LL TAKE TO THE BOARD, AND IF I CAN GET TO THE ELMO, I'LL SHOW SOME COMPARISONS. >>ROSE FERLITA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, BILL. >>BILL ARMSTRONG: AS THE HANDOUT IS BEING PASSED AROUND TO EACH OF YOU COMMISSIONERS, WE DID A TELEPHONIC OR E-MAIL SURVEY OF SOME SURROUNDING AND OTHER COUNTIES THAT HAVE LARGE MUNICIPAL AREAS SUCH AS WE DO IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY AND DID SOME COMPARISONS ON SOME OF THE BASIC FEES THAT ARE CHARGED BY MY DEPARTMENT IN THIS COUNTY AND THE OTHER COUNTIES. WE'VE HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW THOSE FEES THAT COULD BE RAISED IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, AND THE OTHER HIGHLIGHTS IN YELLOW FOR BROWARD, PALM BEACH, PASCO, PINELLAS, POLK, MIAMI-DADE, AND JACKSONVILLE ALL HAVE ONE OR MORE HIGHER FEES THAN WE CURRENTLY HAVE, AND ONE OF THE PROBABLY MOST -- ONE OF THE FEES THAT WOULD GENERATE THE MOST INTEREST WOULD BE THE RABIES REGISTRATION TAG FEES, OF WHICH WE'RE SELLING APPROXIMATELY 150,000 TAGS ANNUALLY, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, WE'RE CHARGING $10 FOR A RABIES LICENSE TAG FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS A PET THAT'S BEEN STERILIZED. THE AMOUNT -- THE HIGH AMOUNT THAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA IS $25 IN MIAMI-DADE, 15 PALM BEACH, AND BROWARD AT 14. THE OTHER FEE THAT WOULD BE REGISTRATION WOULD BE FOR ANIMALS THAT ARE NOT STERILIZED, AND THE HIGH FEES THAT WE'RE SEEING IS PALM BEACH AT 75, MIAMI-DADE AT 50, AND WE'RE CURRENTLY AT 30. THE ADOPTION FEES THAT ARE HERE ILLUSTRATE FOR DOGS -- WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM ADOPTING DOGS OUT. THAT FEE MAY HAVE SOME ELASTICITY THAT COULD BE RAISED AND NOT IMPACT ADOPTIONS. CATS IS ANOTHER STORY. WE WOULD NEVER CONSIDER RAISING FEES THERE. COMMISSIONER FERLITA, DID THAT ASSIST IN THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION? >>ROSE FERLITA: YES, THAT MAKES ME FEEL BETTER, BILL, THAT CERTAINLY YOUR BACKUP DATA HERE SHOWS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE INFLATED FEES THAT WE WANT TO INCREASE EVEN FURTHER, SO THAT GOES BACK TO THE PLAN THAT I THINK INITIALLY WAS DISCUSSED VERY BRIEFLY AT THE PUBLIC HEARING. I -- I TRIED TO BE VERY COMPREHENSIVE IN THIS, BILL, AND I -- AND I PULLED SOME THINGS FROM THE DECISION UNITS AND LOOKED AT THE EFFICIENCY CUTS AND THE CUTS THAT WILL HURT SERVICES, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT. THAT'S JUST KIND OF FOR MY -- FOR MY VISUAL SUPPORT. THEN I ALSO LOOKED AT YOUR ORGANIZATIONAL CHART, AND I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THAT. I KNOW THAT WHEN YOU WERE IDENTIFYING CUTS, YOU HAVE A LOT OF CUTS HERE, BILL, AND I'M SORRY I DIDN'T SHARE THIS WITH YOU BEFORE, BUT JUST -- JUST TIME JUST CRUNCHES DOWN. WE'VE GOT SOME VACANCIES THAT YOU ARE IDENTIFYING AS CUTS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, A LITTLE BIT FURTHER UP THE CHART -- AND I THINK WE REALLY HAVE TO WORK UP THE CHART -- I'M JUST WONDERING IN SOME OF THESE SENIOR ANIMAL CARE ASSISTANT POSITIONS THAT APPEAR VACANT -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TIME FRAME IS -- HAVE YOU -- I'M JUST TRYING TO PULL ANYTHING OUT OF ANYPLACE THAT I CAN. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THOSE TO CONSIDER THOSE ADDITIONAL DECREASES SO THAT YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL MONEY TO SAVE OTHER JOBS? I JUST DIDN'T -- I DIDN'T SEE WHERE THOSE WERE INCLUDED, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE. >>BILL ARMSTRONG: YES, MA'AM. YOU CAN REST ASSURED THAT THE PROCESS THAT WE'LL GO THROUGH ULTIMATELY WHEN YOU MAKE A DECISION ON WHAT MY RESOURCES ARE THAT VACANT POSITIONS WILL GO FIRST WITHOUT PEOPLE IN THEM WHEREVER WE HAVE A JOB CLASSIFICATION THAT MATCHES THE POSITION THAT WAS CUT, SO WE WILL NOT CUT PEOPLE AND LEAVE A POSITION VACANT THAT HAS THAT SAME JOB SKILL SET. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. NO, I WOULD THINK YOU WOULDN'T, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS IN DOING MY RESEARCH, I COULDN'T TELL WHETHER OR NOT THESE HIGHER-UP ONES WERE INCLUDED. YOU'RE NOT SALVAGING THOSE JUST TO MAINTAIN THEM, THEY'RE INCLUDED? AND IF THEY AREN'T -- YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER THAT NOW. IT'S NOT REALLY FAIR. I'M LOOKING AT THIS AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M LOOKING AT, BUT MAYBE SOMETIME LATER WE CAN TALK. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF TIME FOR MORE DISCUSSIONS. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ZEROING IN ON EVERY OPTION WE CAN IN TERMS OF VACANCIES IN ORDER TO ON THE FLIP SIDE SAVE OTHER POSITIONS, AND PROBABLY THE ANSWER IS YES, BUT IF I DON'T ASK, I DON'T KNOW, SO CAN WE GET TOGETHER AND YOU CAN ASSURE ME OF THAT LATER? >>BILL ARMSTRONG: YES, MA'AM, OF COURSE. >>ROSE FERLITA: WELL, THAT BEING SAID, BILL, THOSE ARE THE ONLY QUESTIONS I HAVE, AND BEFORE I RELINQUISH THE FLOOR TO SOMEBODY ELSE, I GUESS MY FIRST REQUEST TODAY WOULD BE TO FLAG ANIMAL SERVICES, AND I WOULD LIKE ADMINISTRATION TO WORK WITH ANIMAL RIGHTS ADVOCATES, RESCUE GROUP, HUMANE SOCIETY, AND OUR ADMINISTRATION CERTAINLY AT ANIMAL SERVICES TO LOOK AT OPTIONS, AND I THINK WE'VE DISCUSSED SOME OF THEM NOW IN TERMS OF COMPARISONS TO OTHER MUNICIPALITIES AND WHAT OUR COLLEAGUES AT THE HUMANE SOCIETY, ET CETERA, DID A LOT OF WORK ON, TO LOOK AT OPTIONS THAT MIGHT AT LEAST IN PART RESTORE SOME OF THE POSITIONS THAT WE CAN COMPENSATE FOR BY FEE INCREASES BUT BASICALLY TO TARGET THE ONES ON PAGE 34 THAT REALLY TRANSLATE TO LOSSES OF SERVICE. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO HAVE LOSS OF SERVICE IN TERMS OF ANIMAL CRUELTY, ET CETERA, SO THAT WOULD BE MY REQUEST AT THIS POINT. THANK YOU, BILL. >>JIM NORMAN: I'LL FLAG THAT WITH YOU. >>ROSE FERLITA: AND ALSO TAKE INTO COMPARISON THE INFORMATION THAT HE GAVE BASED ON MR. NORMAN'S GENERAL COMMENT THAT WE NEED NOT JUST DO THIS IN ISOLATION. IF WE WERE ALREADY WAY OVER OTHER PEOPLE'S FEES, THEN THAT PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE A REALISTIC OPTION, BUT IT APPEARS THAT WE'RE NOT. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>MARK SHARPE: HAVE WE BEEN CONDUCTS THOSE CONVERSATIONS? DID YOU NEED A SECOND ON THAT FLAG? >>ROSE FERLITA: I BELIEVE I DO. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN FLAGGED IT. >>ROSE FERLITA: DID YOU GIVE ME A SECOND ALREADY? THANK YOU. >>MARK SHARPE: OKAY. HAVE WE BEEN CONDUCTING THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE AGENCIES, ALL THE DIFFERENT GROUPS THAT COMMISSIONER FERLITA JUST ADDRESSED? I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN VERY BUSY WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING, SO -- >>BILL ARMSTRONG: NO, I'M FULLY BACK IN THE ANIMAL SERVICES SADDLE AS OF THE FIRST OF THE YEAR BUT BEEN WORKING WITH THE ANIMAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE, OF COURSE, MONTHLY AND MORE FREQUENTLY THAN THAT. HOLLY O'BRIEN IS HERE AS THE CHAIR OF THE ANIMAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE IN THOSE GROUPS, SO I KNOW BEHIND THE SCENES THERE'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, A SUGGESTION AND OPTIONS FOR FEES THAT WOULD GET US TO WHERE I BELIEVE WHAT COMMISSIONER FERLITA HAS POINTED OUT, THE ISSUES OF ANIMAL CRUELTY AND OUR FULL ADOPTION PROGRAM, SO THAT'S WELL UNDER INITIAL THOUGHT PROCESS TO DEAL WITH, SO YES, THE ANSWER IS WE HAVE BEEN TALKING TO THOSE GROUPS. >>MARK SHARPE: OKAY. BECAUSE I'LL BE ASKING THAT PROBABLY THROUGH MOST OF THESE. I MEAN, WE SHOULD BE, IF WE HAVEN'T ALREADY BEEN -- THIS IS NOT A TRAIN WE DIDN'T SEE COMING, SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS. THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FOR BILL? THANK YOU, SIR. >>MANUS O'DONNELL: COMMISSIONERS, THE SECOND PAGE IN YOUR PACKET THERE IS FOR PARKS AND RECREATION. I'LL SUMMARIZE WHAT'S ON THERE. THE FIRST IS TO NOTE THAT THEY FOUND EFFICIENCIES OF ALMOST $4,000. THEY'RE GOING TO ELIMINATE FUNDING FOR A NUMBER OF PARTNERSHIPS THAT WE HAVE. THAT WOULD INCLUDE THE TOMATO FESTIVAL, SEAFOOD FESTIVAL, HOLIDAY IN THE PARK, ARTS AND CRAFTS, AND THE SQUIGGY CLASSIC. YOU CAN SEE THERE THE AMOUNTS OF ATTENDANCE THAT THEY HAVE FOR EACH OF THOSE EVENTS. THEY WOULD ELIMINATE TWO POSITIONS AT THE UNIVERSITY COMMUNITY CENTER, AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE SOME OF THEIR OWN MAINTENANCE. WE WOULD STILL MAINTAIN SOME STAFF AT THE CENTER. ELIMINATE THE SPECIAL EVENTS TEAMS. THESE ARE THE FOLKS THAT GO OUT AND SET UP FOR THE DIFFERENT EVENTS LIKE IN CHILLURA PARK AND OTHER EVENTS THAT ARE THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY THAT WE SPONSOR. ELIMINATE A DIVISION MANAGER AND SECRETARY FOR PLANNING AND PARKS, CUT REGIONAL PARKS POSITIONS. THERE WOULD BE 54 POSITIONS AND SUPPLIES CUT. THEY WOULD BE REDUCED TO OPERATING FIVE DAYS A WEEK. THAT'S IN THIS YEAR. IF YOU LOOK FURTHER DOWN THE LIST, YOU WOULD SEE THAT REGIONAL PARKS WOULD BE CUT BACK TO OPERATING ONLY THREE DAYS A WEEK. ON AN OPERATING -- ON A ROTATING BASIS, WHAT WE MEAN IS THERE WOULD ALWAYS BE A PARK SOMEWHERE NEAR TO WHERE PEOPLE LIVE SO THAT THEY COULD GET THERE. NOT ALL THE PARKS WOULD CLOSE ON THE SAME DAYS. WE WOULD ELIMINATE THE SUMMER SATELLITE DISABILITY PROGRAM. THERE'S 80 CHILDREN IN THE CAMP SPARKS PROGRAM, AND THEN ALSO THE YEAR-ROUND DISABILITY PROGRAM, THERE'S 90 KIDS WITH DISABILITIES THAT GET AFTERSCHOOL CARE. WE WOULD REDUCE THE BAKAS CENTER. THEY PROVIDE 4,000 THERAPEUTIC RIDING LESSONS. WE WOULD LEAVE SOME MONEY IN THE BUDGET, AND WE'D HAVE TO EXPLORE OTHER OPTIONS. I'M NOW TALKING ABOUT SOME THINGS THAT WOULD HAPPEN IN FY 11 AS PROPOSED. REDUCE BLAZESPORTS BY 25%, REDUCE ALL PEOPLES LIFE CENTER BY 25%. THE NUMBER OF PARTICIPANTS WOULD HAVE TO BE REDUCED UNLESS WE GOT AN INCREASE IN VOLUNTEERS. WE WOULD CHARGE ELAPP 25% FOR THE MAINTENANCE THAT PARKS AND RECREATION DOES FOR MAINTAINING THE ELAPP LANDS, REDUCE REGIONAL PARKS -- WELL, I ALREADY MENTIONED THAT ONE. DOWN IN THE UNINCORPORATED FUND WE WOULD ELIMINATE THE AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAM. THAT'S ONE THAT WAS VERY WELL-SPOKEN FOR BY THE PUBLIC THE OTHER NIGHT. THE PROGRAM WOULD BE -- THE ENHANCED PROGRAM IS ONE THAT WAS NEVER IMPLEMENTED. THE BOARD HAD SUGGESTED IN THE PREVIOUS YEAR THAT -- THAT WE COULD ADD ADDITIONAL FUNDING, ADD ADDITIONAL STAFF. THAT WAS NEVER DONE BECAUSE THERE WAS NEVER A DEMAND FOR IT AT THAT TIME. WE WOULD REDUCE THE DOG PARK MAINTENANCE. THERE ARE FOUR DOG PARKS, AND THOSE WOULD BE SEVERELY REDUCED FOR PARKS STAFF GOING OUT AND MAINTAINING THEM. WE WOULD CUT THE ADULT ATHLETIC COORDINATION. THERE ARE 700 TEAMS. WE WOULD STILL WORK WITH THE YOUTH, BUT WE WOULD BE CUTTING THE -- THE ADULT ATHLETIC PROGRAM. THEY WOULD HAVE TO PICK UP MORE OF THE RESPONSIBILITY THEMSELVES. WE WOULD REDUCE AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAMMING, AND THIS IS THE ONE THAT REALLY GOT THE ATTENTION THE OTHER NIGHT. WE WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE THE SERVICE MODEL THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IN ORDER TO PROVIDE CARE TO 3100 CHILDREN, AND THAT'S A $7-MILLION ITEM THERE. AND THEN ALSO PROPOSED WOULD BE ELIMINATION OF BACKGROUND CHECKS ON LEAGUE COACHES. THERE'S ABOUT 3300 COACHES, AND THOSE COACHES WOULD HAVE TO MAINTAIN THEIR OWN BACKGROUND CHECKS INSTEAD OF PARKS AND RECREATION DOING IT FOR THEM. THE TOTAL BUDGET CUT FOR PARKS AND RECREATION FY 10 IS $12.9 MILLION, 217 FULL-TIME EQUIVALENTS, AND IN FY 11 THE FIGURE GOES UP TO 17 MILLION WITH 277 FULL-TIME EQUIVALENTS. AND AGAIN, THE EXPERT IN THIS AREA IS MARK THORNTON, AND HE IS HERE TO HELP ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE. >>KEN HAGAN: GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. THORNTON. >>MARK THORNTON: GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. MARK THORNTON, DIRECTORS OF PARKS, RECREATION, AND CONSERVATION. YOU WANT ME TO -- I'LL JUST WAIT. YOU CAN ASK ME A QUESTION. I HAVE THE INFORMATION TO TALK ABOUT IN A LITTLE MORE DETAIL IN THE AFTERSCHOOL BASED ON TUESDAY NIGHT'S COMMENTS AND REQUESTS IF YOU WANT TO DO THOSE FIRST, AND THEN -- >>KEN HAGAN: WE'VE GOT A NUMBER OF COMMISSIONER COMMENTS. LET ME TAKE THOSE FIRST, AND THEN WE'LL ADDRESS THAT. COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: I'M JUST GOING TO BE -- THIS JUST GOES, I GUESS, TO OUR ADMINISTRATOR, THOUGH. WHATEVER KIND OF SOLUTIONS YOU'RE GOING TO COME UP WITH, IT'S GOING TO BE A FIXED TWO-YEAR SUGGESTION? AND I'M SURE PARKS ARE GOING TO BE INTO THAT SUGGESTION, SO I GUESS I DON'T WANT TO -- WHATEVER YOU DO, I HOPE YOU WORK WITH OUR PARKS AND REC ON -- ON -- >>PAT BEAN: ABSOLUTELY. >>JIM NORMAN: -- FIGURING OUT THE MOST IMPACT WE COULD HAVE ON WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING, AND I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT. IT'S PREMATURE, I THINK, WITH SOME OF YOUR SUGGESTIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS, SO I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT, THAT YOU-ALL WILL HAVE FURTHER STUDY, AND -- >> ABSOLUTELY. >>JIM NORMAN: -- HEARING OUR MESSAGE THE OTHER NIGHT -- AND I KNOW COMMISSIONER HAGAN'S VERY STRONG ABOUT THIS TOO -- HEARING OUR MESSAGE THE OTHER NIGHT THAT THIS NEEDS A LOT OF ATTENTION, AND I KNOW THIS IS A SHOCK TREATMENT, AND IT'S WHAT THE CITIZENS ARE SEEING, AND IT'S TERRIBLE, AND, YOU KNOW, FROM MY -- I DON'T KNOW IF I'VE EVER SEEN ALL PEOPLES LIFE AND -- YOU KNOW, YOU'RE -- I GUESS THE OTHER GENTLEMAN STATED THERE WOULD BE PARKS OPEN THAT THEY COULD ALL GO TO. WELL, FOLKS, THERE'S NO MORE OTHER THAN THE ALL PEOPLES LIFE CENTER. THAT IS IT FOR THEM. WHEN YOU WHACK IT LIKE THAT, THERE IS NO OTHER OPPORTUNITIES. I MEAN, THESE KIDS -- THAT -- WHAT WE CREATED HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY WAS TO TALK ABOUT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. WE LEVELED THE PLAYING FIELD FOR KIDS WITH ALL KIND OF CHALLENGES TO BE ABLE TO NOW PARTICIPATE AS ALL OTHER KIDS IN OUR COUNTY. WHEN THAT GOES AWAY, WE'VE UN -- THE FIELD'S NOT LEVEL ANYMORE, SO FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, JUST -- YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GOING TO GO LINE ITEM AND TALK ABOUT IT. YOU HAVE A TASK. YOU-ALL MAKE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS, AND I'LL LOOK FORWARD TO YOU BRINGING THAT BACK. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: I'LL ACTUALLY -- I'LL WAIT UNTIL YOU GET DONE WITH THE AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAM. THAT'S WHERE I WANTED TO SPEND SOME TIME, SO GO AHEAD WITH THE AFTERSCHOOL. AND DO WE HAVE OTHER COMMENTS [INAUDIBLE] >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>MARK SHARPE: ALTHOUGH -- MY QUESTION WAS GOING TO BE WITH REGARD TO THE AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAM, YOU'RE LOOKING AT 3100 PARTICIPANTS? >>MARK THORNTON: CURRENTLY, YES, SIR. >>MARK SHARPE: AND IS THE PLAN THAT THEY -- THAT THESE -- THEY WOULD LEAVE THE PARK PROGRAM AND PARTICIPATE IN A SCHOOL PROGRAM, OR WHAT IS THE PLAN? >>MARK THORNTON: WELL, LET ME PASS THESE OUT. IF I COULD, I CAN KIND OF QUICKLY WALK THROUGH THIS FORM THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT. I TRIED TO -- TO KIND OF SUMMARIZE IT SO THAT YOU COULD HAVE IT ON ONE PAGE, NOT BE FLIPPING THROUGH TEN DIFFERENT PAGES. WE WANTED TO SHOW YOU THE -- BACK IN MARCH WHEN DOING A WORKSHOP WE GAVE YOU SOME OPTIONS -- PRESENTED SOME OPTIONS THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO LOOK AT SOME ANTICIPATED REDUCTIONS. WHAT I HAVE HERE IS JUST SOME ADDITIONAL MODIFIED INFORMATION REGARDING THOSE OPTIONS, BUT BASICALLY LET ME JUST QUICKLY RUN THROUGH IT. NUMBER ONE, THE RUN AS IS, THAT'S OUR CURRENT SITUATION WITH THE NUMBERS THAT WE HAVE, THE STAFFING COST. THE TOTAL COST OF THAT PROGRAM IS -- RIGHT NOW IS $73 A WEEK. OUR FEES ARE ZERO, 10, AND 20, AND THERE'S SOME INCOME GUIDELINES THERE. SO THE COUNTY'S SUBSIDY RANGES FROM $53 TO $73 PER WEEK. THE OTHER TWO OPTIONS -- AND CURRENTLY IN THE PROPOSED BUDGET THERE'S A $2-MILLION AMOUNT WITHIN THIS PROGRAM -- THE FUNDING, THE STAFFING, EVERYTHING HAS BEEN ELIMINATED, BUT THERE IS TWO MILLION IN THERE, AND WE'VE SORT OF IDENTIFIED THAT AS -- AS SEED MONEY FOR WHATEVER IT IS WE DO OR PARTNERSHIP MONEY, GRANT MONEY, SUBSIDY MONEY, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO IDENTIFY THAT. OF COURSE, IF WE DO PARTNER WITH OUTSIDE ORGANIZATIONS, WE WOULD HAVE THE TWO MILLION TO -- TO COME TO THEM WITH THE PROGRAM, AND THE GENERAL TWO OUTSIDE AGENCIES THAT ARE THE LARGEST ARE THE YMCA LATCHKEY PROGRAM AND THE SCHOOL BOARD'S HOST PROGRAM. THEY BOTH CHARGE THE SAME, 10, 20, AND 48, SO THE PROGRAM COST IS 48, AND THEN THEY HAVE SUBSIDY MONEY TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE. THEY'RE FEE SUPPORTED, NOT AD VALOREM TAX SUPPORTED. AND THEN THE THIRD ONE WAS A COMBINATION OF US CONTINUING TO RUN THE PROGRAM BUT MORE OF AN EFFICIENCY GENERALLY THE SAME WAY, BUT INSTEAD OF OUR FULL-TIME STAFFING THAT HAS A HIGH COST, WE'D NEED TO LOWER THAT $73 DOWN, AND WE WERE ABLE TO GET IT DOWN TO $44 PER WEEK BY CHANGING OUR OPERATIONS. NOW, THE -- THE STRUGGLE -- THE STRUGGLE WE HAVE WITH -- WITH ANY FEE IS IF WE SET A FEE TO RECOUP OUR COST, IT'S GOING TO IMPACT THOSE THAT CAN'T AFFORD THE FEE, AND AS WE HEARD THE OTHER NIGHT, THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT -- I NEED THE PROGRAM. IF I DON'T HAVE THE PROGRAM, I'VE GOT TO QUIT MY JOB, AND THOSE -- WE HAVE A BALANCE OF THE SOCIAL SERVICES ASPECT OF WHAT WE DO BALANCED WITH THE RECREATIONAL ENJOYMENT OF WHAT WE DO, SO WE'RE -- THOSE TWO SOMETIMES ARE OPPOSED IN THE BENEFIT, SO IF WE PURSUE A FEE-SUPPORTED SYSTEM USING THE TWO MILLION THAT'S WITHIN THE BUDGET FOR -- FOR SOME SUBSIDIES, HOW MANY KIDS CAN WE HAVE, AND WE'VE SORT OF GIVEN YOU A BREAKDOWN OF OUR ESTIMATED NUMBER OF ENROLLMENT. IT'S GOING TO BE DOWN FROM 3100, AND I CAN KIND OF TELL YOU WHERE I GET THAT NUMBER FROM. WE TOOK OUR 3100 -- RIGHT NOW THERE'S ABOUT 400 KIDS PAYING FOR PRIVATE TRANSPORTATION TO GET TO OUR CENTERS OF ABOUT $20 A WEEK. IF OUR FEE GOES OVER $28 A WEEK AND THEY'RE PAYING $20, THEY MAY PROBABLY JUST STAY WITHIN THOSE SCHOOLS' PROGRAM RATHER THAN PAY MORE. MAKING AN ASSUMPTION THERE, BUT -- SO WE TOOK 400 OFF THE TOP, AND LAST YEAR WE HAD 5800 REGISTERED IN THE PROGRAM. AS SOON AS WE IMPLEMENTED A 50 -- OR EXCUSE ME -- A $20 FEE MAX, A ZERO TO 20, WE DROPPED ALMOST 48% IN ENROLLMENT, SO WE KNOW THAT ANY TIME WE RAISE A FEE, THERE'S GOING TO BE AT LEAST THE FIRST YEAR A DROP, SO WE TOOK 10%, AND NOW WE CAME DOWN TO 2400. THE GOAL WOULD BE THE MORE WE CAN HAVE IN THERE -- IF WE WENT TO 2700 AND KEPT OUR COSTS GENERALLY THE SAME, THAT $40 FEE DROPS TO -- OR $44 FEE WOULD DROP TO 40, SO IT'S A BALANCING ACT BETWEEN THE TOTAL NUMBER THAT YOU CAN GET ENROLLED, KEEPING YOUR COSTS AS FIXED AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN, BUT FOR EVERY 20 KIDS WE ADD, WE'VE GOT TO ADD ANOTHER STAFFPERSON, SO IT DOES GO UP A LITTLE BIT. >>MARK SHARPE: ONE STAFF PER 20? >>MARK THORNTON: YEAH, WE'RE BUDGETING IN THIS BUDGET ONE TO 20 BASED ON THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE FLORIDA AFTERSCHOOL NETWORK THAT ESTABLISHED GUIDELINES FOR QUALITY AFTERCARE PROGRAMS, AND WE PARTICIPATED IN THAT STUDY, OUR DEPARTMENT DID, AND WE'RE WORKING WITH THE POST -- THE PARTNERSHIP FOR OUT-OF-SCHOOL TIME WITH THE CHILDREN'S BOARD, AND THEY PARTICIPATED ALSO IN THAT STUDY, BUT IT SET A CRITERIA THAT WE ARE USING FOR THOSE -- THOSE STANDARDS AS FAR AS THE RATIOS OF STAFF. WE USED TO DO ONE TO 35. WE WERE TRYING TO GET ONE TO 25. >>MARK SHARPE: WHAT ABOUT IN A TIME WHEN -- FIRST OFF, ARE THERE CHILDREN THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE ON A WAITING LIST OF ANY SORT? >>MARK THORNTON: NO. >>MARK SHARPE: SO THERE'S NO WAITING -- >>MARK THORNTON: ONLY ONE CENTER HAS A WAITING LIST, AND THAT'S WESTCHASE, AND THAT'S A VERY SITUATION -- EXCUSE ME. WE HAVE ABOUT 900 ON OUR WAITING LIST, AND HALF OF THOSE ARE AT WESTCHASE. >>MARK SHARPE: HAVE WE THOUGHT ABOUT INCREASING THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS PER PAID INSTRUCTOR BUT THEN LOOKING FOR VOLUNTEERS THROUGH EITHER THE PARKS THEMSELVES OR THE CIVIC ASSOCIATIONS, NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS THAT WOULD WORK WITH A PARENT? I MEAN, I KNOW THAT AT SCHOOLS NOW BECAUSE OF THE -- THE FUNDING PROBLEMS PARENTS ARE BEING USED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN WAYS THEY'VE NEVER BEEN USED BEFORE, AND MANY -- AND THERE ARE OCCASIONALLY -- THERE'S THE MOM OR THE DAD THAT'S GOT SOME TIME, AND RATHER THAN SEE THE PROGRAM GO AWAY, WOULD BE WILLING MAYBE DURING THESE NEXT TWO YEARS TO WORK WITH THE STAFF. HAVE WE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT? >>MARK THORNTON: WE DO HAVE VOLUNTEERS THAT ASSIST NOT ON A REGULAR BASIS. A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT -- THAT WE HAVE TO LICENSE OUR INSTRUCTORS NOW. THAT'S GOING TO LIMIT US UNLESS WE CAN GET THOSE VOLUNTEERS LICENSED OR CERTIFIED, EXCUSE ME, BECAUSE OF OUR -- OUR DESIRE TO BE LICENSED. AND -- BUT WE'VE ALWAYS RELIED ON SOME VOLUNTEERS FOR OUR SPECIAL EVENTS. WHEN WE GET OUR GROUPS TOGETHER, WE TAKE FIELD TRIPS AT THE END OF SCHOOL YEAR KIND OF THING. WE DO HAVE VOLUNTEER PROGRAM -- VOLUNTEERS THAT ASSIST. OUR TINY TOTS PROGRAM IS HEAVILY DEPENDENT ON VOLUNTEERS, WHICH ISN'T PART OF THIS, BUT IT'S -- >>MARK SHARPE: NOT TO SHIFT, BUT IT WOULD BE MY OBJECTIVE THAT WE FIND A WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KEEP ALL THE 3100. MY CONCERN IS THIS: AS WE RAISE THE FEES -- AND I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE -- WE'RE GOING TO BE -- WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO LOOK AT FEES, OBVIOUSLY, BUT AS YOU RAISE FEES, THE CHILDREN THAT YOU REALLY WANT THE MOST TO BE IN THE PROGRAM ARE THE -- THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT WE FIND DROPPING OFF BECAUSE THE PARENTS JUST CAN'T AFFORD IT, AND I DO SEE THIS AS A GREAT SERVICE BECAUSE WE'VE GOT MANY PARENTS WHO ARE DESPERATELY TRYING TO MAINTAIN THEIR JOB, AND THIS HELPS, SO I'D LIKE -- AND I'M WILLING TO LOOK AT CHANGING THE WAY WE STAFF, AGAIN GOING UP -- BUMPING IT UP FROM ONE TO 20, ONE TO 25 WITH A VOLUNTEER ASSISTING, WE GO THROUGH THE LICENSING ISSUE. ON THE PARKS, DO WE HAVE -- IS THERE ANY WAY THAT WE COULD USE CIVIC ASSOCIATIONS OR NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS TO GO AND CLEAN UP THE POOP AT THE DOG PARK RATHER -- I MEAN, WHO DO WE HAVE MAINTAINING DOG PARKS RIGHT NOW? >>MARK THORNTON: WE HAVE A PART-TIME POSITION THAT'S DOING THAT NOW, AND THAT'S BASICALLY THAT ONE LINE ITEM. IT'S NOT A LARGE EXPENSE. WE WILL ASSIGN THAT TO THE RECREATION STAFF OF THE NEAREST CENTER -- A LOT OF THEM ARE RIGHT ADJACENT TO CENTERS -- TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO THAT. WE DO RELY ON A LOT OF VOLUNTEERS IN THAT PROGRAM, AND WE'VE ACTUALLY TALKED TO ANIMAL SERVICES A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO TO WORK WITH THEM. I THINK THAT THAT'S A SELF-POLICING KIND OF PROGRAM. THEY'RE TYPICALLY -- >>MARK SHARPE: THEY'VE GOT THE MATERIAL RIGHT THERE -- >>MARK THORNTON: THE BAGS, RIGHT. >>MARK SHARPE: -- THE BAGS AND SUCH. >>MARK THORNTON: MOST PEOPLE -- WE DON'T HAVE TO DO A WHOLE LOT. WE MAY NOT MOW THEM AS FREQUENTLY AS WE HAVE IN THE PAST, WHICH IS A CONCERN FOR ALL THE PARKS, BUT THE POOP AND ALL THE THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT'S GETTING PICKED UP BY THE PEOPLE ACTUALLY USING THE PARK. >>MARK SHARPE: THE USERS? >>MARK THORNTON: YES. >>MARK SHARPE: THANKS. >>MARK THORNTON: FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM. >>KEN HAGAN: MARK, I KNOW COMMISSIONER BECKNER AND COMMISSIONER FERLITA WANT TO SPEAK AS WELL. CLEARLY WE WANT TO FLAG THIS ITEM, BUT WHAT -- I ALSO WANT TO SEE IF YOU COULD COME UP WITH SOME TYPE OF I'LL JUST USE THE TERM "HYBRID," FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, OPTION THAT WOULD INCLUDE THE SUBSIDY, ADDITIONAL COUNTY FUNDS THAT COULD BE USED TOWARD THIS PROGRAM, AND ALSO A VERY SMALL FEE INCREASE, NOT A DRASTIC ONE, BUT I WANT TO SEE IF WE PUT THOSE ALL THREE TOGETHER, WHAT THAT WOULD COME UP WITH. >>MARK THORNTON: OKAY. >>KEN HAGAN: WHAT IS THE STATUS OF DISCUSSIONS WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND OTHER PROVIDERS? IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE'S KIND OF BEEN A BREAKDOWN THERE. >>MARK THORNTON: WE'VE HAD -- I'VE HAD QUITE A NUMBER OF DISCUSSIONS WITH THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, BRIEFLY WITH THE -- THROUGH E-MAILS ACTUALLY WITH THE YMCA. I THINK THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITY THERE, BUT WE REALLY WANTED TO GET SOME DIRECTION FROM THE BOARD TODAY, ACTUALLY, THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO -- TO FIND OUT WHICH DIRECTION WE WANT TO GO. HERE -- THE BIGGEST CONCERN THAT WE HAD IS SCHOOL STARTS AUGUST 24th. BOTH THE SCHOOL AND I, IN OUR CONVERSATIONS, UNDERSTAND THAT TO DEVELOP THE PROGRAM THAT WE ALL THINK WE MIGHT COULD HAVE, THIS ONE HIGH-QUALITY FUNCTIONING PROGRAM, THERE'S NO WAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO IT BEFORE NOW AND -- AND OUR REGISTRATION, WHICH IS IN JULY, FOR SCHOOL STARTING ON AUGUST 24th, WHICH IS WHY WE CAME BACK TO THIS OPTION THREE THAT KEEPS IT IN-HOUSE, LOWERS OUR COST, AND WE WILL PREPARE A HYBRID. BASICALLY WE'LL DETERMINE WHAT IS A REASONABLE INCREASE FROM WHAT WE HAVE NOW AND WHAT WE HAVE TO FILL THE HOLE IN AND WHERE THOSE FUNDS WOULD COME FROM. >>KEN HAGAN: CLEARLY THAT -- WHATEVER THAT NUMBER IS NEEDS TO BE SIGNIFICANTLY BELOW THE -- WHAT'S CHARGED IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. YOU KNOW -- >>MARK THORNTON: YES. >>KEN HAGAN: I CAN'T GIVE YOU AMOUNTS FOR, SAY, THE "Y" FOR AFTERSCHOOL, BUT I CAN FOR THE SUMMER PROGRAM. I KNOW LIKE NOW WE'RE $30 A WEEK -- >>MARK THORNTON: $48 A WEEK FOR THE AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAM. THEY HAVE A RANGE FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY. SCHOOL -- I THINK -- I'M NOT SURE IF THE "Y," BUT I KNOW THE SCHOOL HAS A MINIMUM OF $10 NO MATTER WHAT. OUR MINIMUM IS ZERO, AND SO WE'LL LOOK AT THAT AND CERTAINLY THROUGH THE NEAR -- VERY NEAR FUTURE COME BACK THROUGH THE ADMINISTRATOR WITH ALL RECOMMENDATIONS AND -- AND KIND OF A CAFETERIA PLAN, IF THIS FEE IS ACCEPTABLE, HERE'S WHAT WE HAVE TO HAVE TO FUND THE DIFFERENCE. THAT'S -- THAT'S REALLY -- IN THE PAST WE DIDN'T HAVE A FEE. THE FUNDING WAS 100% COUNTY. WE DO HAVE SOME REVENUE NOW. IT'S DOWN -- IT'S -- OUR TARGET PER-PERSON CHARGE IS RIGHT ON AT $10 AVERAGE. THIS $44 IS ABOUT A $23 AVERAGE BECAUSE WE'RE HAVING -- WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ADDRESS THOSE WHO CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY, AND WE ARE WORKING WITH DAVE ROGOFF AND HIS STAFF TO LOOK AT COMMUNITY SERVICES BLOCK GRANT MONEY. WE KNOW THERE'S MONEY OUT THERE. BECAUSE WE NEVER HAD A FEE BEFORE, WE NEVER REALLY PURSUED SOME OF THE GRANTS THAT DAVE HAS TALKED WITH ME ABOUT, AND I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT THAT. WE'LL MIX THOSE INTO THE PACKAGE SO THAT WE CAN GET ALL WE CAN. >>KEN HAGAN: AND WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, AGAIN, IS NOT ONLY WITH THE SUBSIDY, BUT IF WE'RE ABLE TO PLUG IN ADDITIONAL, SAY, ONE MILLION OR TWO MILLION, WHETHER THAT COMES FROM CUTS IN OTHER -- OTHER SERVICES -- COUNTY SERVICES OR WHETHER IT COMES FROM A COMMUNICATION TYPE REVENUE OR WHEREVER, IF WE'RE ABLE -- OR IF WE INCORPORATE THOSE DOLLARS, WHAT WOULD THE FEE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT BE. >>MARK THORNTON: OKAY. >>KEN HAGAN: I REALLY -- I THINK THE GOAL SHOULD BE TO TRY AND MAINTAIN THE PROGRAM AS CLOSE TO WHAT IT IS TODAY. I KNOW THIS BOARD SPOKE VERY LOUD AND CLEAR LAST YEAR AND AGAIN THIS YEAR THAT WE ARE COMPLETELY SUPPORTIVE OF -- OF THE AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAM, OF THE SUMMER PROGRAM. I'M IN -- AND I'VE SAID THIS LAST BUDGET YEAR, SAID IT IN E-MAILS. I'M IN A UNIQUE SITUATION IN THAT AS A CHILD I PARTICIPATED IN THESE PROGRAMS, I WAS A -- AN ASSISTANT HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY PARK DIRECTOR FOR A COUPLE YEARS WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE, AND MY SON IS ENROLLED, AS YOU KNOW, IN THE PROGRAM, SO I'VE SEEN IT FROM ALL LEVELS, AND, NOW HE -- I CAN -- YOU KNOW, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE FOLKS ARE VERY, VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT NOT ONLY THE PROGRAM BUT THEIR COACHES, AND THAT SHOULD BE THE GOAL, AND WE NEED TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO TRY -- TO TRY AND GET THERE. SO -- BUT COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. ON OPTION THREE, IF -- IT SAYS CLOSE SELECTED CENTERS. ABOUT HOW MANY CENTERS WOULD WE BE CLOSING IN THAT OPTION, AND DO WE KNOW -- DO YOU KNOW SPECIFICALLY WHICH CENTERS YOU'RE TARGETING TO CLOSE? >>MARK THORNTON: NO, WE DON'T KNOW THE SPECIFICS, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT MY STAFF AND I AS RECENTLY AS THIS AFTERNOON, RIGHT BEFORE I CAME DOWNTOWN, TALKED ABOUT. WE'VE GOT -- WE'VE GOT A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE SOME CENTERS THAT HAVE LESS THAN 20 KIDS, LESS THAN ONE FULL- TIME PERSON NEED, AND THE ISSUE OF IF WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FOR TWO PEOPLE, THE SAFETY ISSUE WITH ONLY ONE COUNSELOR THERE, ONE COACH THERE BECOMES A CONCERN. IN SOME CASES WE'VE GOT ANOTHER CENTER THAT CAN COVER THE KIDS THAT NEED TO GO TO THAT PROGRAM BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL GOING TO DIFFERENT -- THE SAME ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, THEY'RE JUST DISPERSING TO DIFFERENT CENTERS, SO WE HAVE TO EVALUATE ALL OF THOSE. IN SOME CASES WE'RE ON SCHOOL GROUNDS WHERE THEY HAVE A PROGRAM AND WE HAVE A PROGRAM AT THE SAME SITE, AND THOSE MAY BE SOME THAT WE TAKE OUR RESOURCES AND PUT THEM WHERE WE NEED THEM ELSEWHERE. WE DON'T REALLY KNOW AT THIS POINT. WE DO KNOW THAT WE HAVE GENERALLY ABOUT EIGHT CENTERS THAT ARE UNDERUTILIZED AT THIS POINT, AND THERE ARE OTHERS THAT -- THAT THERE'S NOT -- THERE'S TWO PROGRAMS GOING ON AT THE SAME PLACE. IF WE PULLED BACK, WE KNOW THERE'S STILL A PROGRAM THERE. WE JUST NEED TO EVALUATE ALL OF THOSE, AND THERE COULD BE ANYWHERE BETWEEN EIGHT AND 15. WE -- WE DON'T -- IT LOWERS OUR OPERATIONAL COST -- THE STAFFING COST IS A ONE-TO-20 RATIO -- WHETHER IT'S ONE CENTER OR 43 CENTERS OR 42 CENTERS. SO IT DEPENDS ON WHERE THE KIDS ARE AS WHERE WE GO. >>KEVIN BECKNER: I WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT -- AND AGAIN, WE WANT TO BE SENSITIVE THE CENTERS THAT WE'RE CLOSING THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A DISPROPORTIONATE OF AT-RISK KIDS THERE THAT REALLY NEED THESE PROGRAMS AND THEN WE'RE ELIMINATING THESE PROGRAMS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GETTING INVOLVED IN ACTIVITIES THAT WE DON'T WANT THEM TO BE INVOLVED IN, AND THAT CREATES MORE ISSUES FOR OUR COMMUNITY, SO I WOULD JUST ASK AND PLEASE -- >>MARK THORNTON: WE'LL BE VERY CONSIDERATE OF THAT -- THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS AS TO CLOSING ANY. >>KEVIN BECKNER: YEAH. AND WHEN YOU COME BACK, IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE RECOMMENDING THE CLOSING OF CERTAIN CENTERS, I THINK THIS BOARD WOULD PROBABLY WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT CENTERS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT -- >>MARK THORNTON: YES. >>KEVIN BECKNER: -- AND GIVE SOME BACKUP AND RATIONALE FOR THAT. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IN OPTION THREE GOING FROM 99 FULL- TIME TO ONE FULL-TIME AND 120 PART-TIME. DO YOU ENVISION THAT YOUR FULL-TIMERS, A LARGER PERCENTAGE OF THEM, WOULD BE WILLING TO GO TO PART-TIMERS THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THIS PROGRAM? ARE YOU LOOKING THAT WE'D HAVE A TURNOVER AND INVOLVE A LOT OF NEW EMPLOYEES? WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? WHAT ARE YOU SEEING HERE? >>MARK THORNTON: WELL, IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT NUMBER ONE, WE'VE GOT 99, AS YOU MENTIONED, AND 86 PART-TIME. IN NUMBER THREE WE HAVE ONE FULL-TIME, 120 PART-TIME. I DO WANT TO MENTION, IF YOU LOOK AT THE ASTERISKS, THAT WE HAVE 45 FULL-TIME THAT ARE IN THE BASE DECISION UNIT IN THE BASE RECREATION THAT ARE PART OF THIS PROGRAM, BUT THEY'RE IN A DIFFERENT DECISION UNIT. THERE OUR GENERAL RECREATION. SO WE ACTUALLY WOULD GO FROM 140 -- 139 TO 46. WE HAVE 86 PART-TIME THAT WORK FOR US NOW. WE WOULD BE ADDING UP TO THE 120, SO -- AND THAT'S A REVOLVING POSITION, OF COURSE. WE HAVE SOME THAT HAVE BEEN WITH US FOR SEVERAL YEARS, SOME SAY WITH US A MONTH, SO THERE IS A HIGHER TURNOVER, BUT THE -- WE HAVE A THOUSAND APPLICATIONS ON-LINE RIGHT NOW, SO THERE'S A LOT OF FOLKS. I DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY OF OUR PERMANENT PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO WORK PART-TIME OR COULD WORK PART-TIME BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE, THOSE THINGS. IF -- YOU KNOW, IF THEY -- THEY WOULD BE THE FIRST CHOICE BECAUSE OF THEIR EXPERIENCE AND THE FACT THEY'RE ALREADY WORKING FOR THE COUNTY. I DON'T HAVE ANY WAY TO KNOW HOW MANY WOULD ACTUALLY TAKE A PART-TIME JOB THAT'S CURRENTLY FULL-TIME. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THE REASON WHY I ASKED THAT IS I'M OUT AND ABOUT AND WERE TALKING -- HEARING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE PROGRAM THEY KEEP ON -- ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY DIFFERENTIATE THEM -- OUR PROGRAM FROM THE OTHER PROGRAMS IS THE QUALITY OF THE STAFF AND QUALITY OF PROGRAMS THAT COME WITH -- COME WITH OUR PROGRAM, AND SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU FORESEE THAT IF WE WENT TO THIS MODEL THE ACTUAL QUALITY THAT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO OFFER AS A PROGRAM AS A WHOLE -- WOULD YOU SEE THAT DIMINISH OR DO YOU SEE THAT WE'D BE ABLE TO KEEP A LOT OF THAT SAME CONTINUITY IF WE HAVE THE -- THIS TYPE OF A CHANGE IN STAFF? >>MARK THORNTON: THERE WILL BE -- IF THERE'S MORE TURNOVER, THEN THERE'LL BE LESS -- LESS TENURE IN OUR EMPLOYEES, SO A KID THAT GOES THROUGH FROM FIRST GRADE TO SEVENTH GRADE MAY HAVE WORKED WITH OR GONE TO ONE CENTER WITH THE SAME EMPLOYEE THAT'S THEIR MENTOR THE WHOLE TIME. IN THIS CASE THEY MAY HAVE THREE OR FOUR. THAT'S -- THAT'S THE CHANGE THAT I SEE. I WILL TELL YOU THAT -- THAT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF OUR HIRING FREEZES AND WHERE WE ARE WITH THE POTENTIAL REDUCTION IN FORCE, WE HAVE -- WE HAVE A COUPLE OF CENTERS -- AND I'M GOING TO MENTION ONE IN PARTICULAR. THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE. THE YOUNG LADY THAT WAS INTERVIEWED BY CHANNEL 9 YESTERDAY WAS AT TIMBERLANE. OUR MANAGER OUT THERE WHO'S THE ONLY FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS PLANNED AND IS OPERATING THE SUMMER CAMP. SHE'S THE ONLY FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE WE HAVE. THE REST ARE OUR SUMMER TEMPORARIES BECAUSE WE -- WE HAVE A VACANCY WE'RE NOT GOING TO FILL BECAUSE WE -- WE'RE AFRAID -- YOU KNOW, LAST HIRED/FIRST FIRED KIND OF SITUATION, WE'LL LOSE THEM, AND SO THAT -- AND SHE'S DOING A FABULOUS JOB, AND I TOLD HER I WANT TO USE HER AS A MODEL. SHE'S DOING EXACTLY WHAT THIS PROGRAM DOES, AND THE KIDS -- YOU SEE THE KIDS. THEY DON'T -- THEY DON'T HAVE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ONE OR THE OTHER. SHE'S THERE, THE OTHER COUNSELORS ARE THERE. THEY'RE HAVING A GREAT TIME. >>KEVIN BECKNER: SO THE QUALITY OF THE PROGRAMS IN THIS -- >>MARK THORNTON: IN MY OPINION, THE QUALITY OF THAT PROGRAM IS AT WHERE IT'S ALWAYS BEEN, AND IT WOULD BE UP TO US AS YOUR STAFF TO ASSURE TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY THAT THE QUALITY IS MAINTAINED. WILL THERE BE A DROP? THERE PROBABLY WILL BE. I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU THAT WE CAN KEEP IT THE WAY IT ACTUALLY IS NOW, BUT IT'S UP TO US TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ANTICIPATE THOSE DROPS AND GET THAT AS EQUAL TO WHAT IT IS NOW, BUT THERE WILL BE AN IMPACT, AND I KNOW THAT. >>KEVIN BECKNER: I WOULD JUST ASK YOU THAT YOU GIVE US YOUR HONEST OPINION THAT IF THERE'S AN OPTION THERE AND THERE'S A CONCERN ABOUT QUALITY JUST SO WE CAN GO IN THIS AND -- YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WE RELY ON YOUR EXPERTISE AND YOU RUN THIS PROGRAM, YOU KNOW. EVEN THOUGH THAT THEY'RE SAVING A LOT OF DOLLARS AND CONTINUING THE PROGRAM, I WOULD JUST EXPECT YOUR HONEST OPINION, SAY, YOU KNOW, I MIGHT HAVE CONCERNS IF WE GO THIS ROUTE BECAUSE OF "X." LAST COMMENT I'LL MAKE IS THAT GOING BACK WITH -- COMMISSIONER HAGAN WAS TALKING ABOUT COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE SCHOOLS AND OTHER PROGRAMS. I MET WITH THE SUPERINTENDENT LAST FALL, AND THERE IS AN OPENNESS AS FAR AS EXPLORING HOW WE CAN WORK TOGETHER, AND I'VE MOST RECENTLY BEEN IN CONTACT WITH SCHOOL BOARD GRIFFIN TO TALK ABOUT WHERE WE'RE AT IN TALKS ON THIS, AND SO I KNOW WE'RE KIND OF LATE IN THE PROCESS RIGHT NOW, BUT, AGAIN, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND I THINK THE IMPORTANCE OF -- OF COMING TOGETHER FROM DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS. NO LONGER A US AGAINST THEM, IT'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO WORK TOGETHER TO PROVIDE AN EFFECTIVE PROGRAM, SO -- AND I -- AND AGAIN, I KNOW WE'RE GETTING SHORTER ON TIME, BUT I WOULD CERTAINLY MAKE A MOTION THAT WE OPEN UP THE DOORS OF COMMUNICATION TO THE SCHOOL BOARD AND TO THE SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION AND -- AND DETERMINE HOW WE CAN WORK TOGETHER AND START LOOKING AT DIFFERENT WAYS THAT WE CAN CONSERVE RESOURCES AND WORK TOGETHER TO PUT TOGETHER A TOP- QUALITY PROGRAM, AND I WOULD CERTAINLY BE MORE THAN WILLING TO ROLL UP MY SLEEVES AND GET INVOLVED AND BE PART OF THOSE TALKS AND WOULD HOPE I COULD BE INCLUDED IN THAT AS WELL. SO I'LL LEAVE THAT AS -- >> SECOND. >>KEVIN BECKNER: OPEN MOTION. >>KEN HAGAN: THAT'S A FLAG THAT WE CAN GIVE TO THE ADMINISTRATION -- >>JIM NORMAN: IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A MOTION LIKE THAT, I'D LIKE TO HAVE A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON THAT BECAUSE -- >>KEN HAGAN: I DON'T THINK IT'S A MOTION, I THINK IT'S CONSISTENT WITH OUR POLICY. >>JIM NORMAN: OUR AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAMS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THOSE FAMILIES LIKE IT AT OUR PARKS. IF YOU DO THAT COMBINATION THINGS AND YOU MOVE IT TO THE SCHOOLS, THERE'S SOME REAL ISSUES WITH THAT, SO -- >>KEVIN BECKNER: AND AGAIN, I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING RIGHT NOW. WHAT I'M SUGGESTING IS THAT WE START A DIALOGUE, AND THAT'S BEEN ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES I THINK WE'VE HAD IS BECAUSE WE CAN'T EVEN GET TO THE TABLE TO TALK ABOUT OPTIONS. MAYBE THERE ARE NO OPTIONS, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I THINK UNTIL WE GET THERE, WE WON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE OPTIONS ARE. >>MARK SHARPE: CAN WE MAYBE MOVE IT TO FROM THE SCHOOL TO THE PARK? >>KEVIN BECKNER: I'M SORRY? >>MARK SHARPE: WE COULD MAYBE MOVE IT FROM THE SCHOOL TO THE PARK? >>KEVIN BECKNER: YEAH. I MEAN, THIS IS ALL PART OF THE DISCUSSIONS. I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A PROGRAM ONE PLACE OR ANOTHER. I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT OPENING UP DIALOGUE. >>KEN HAGAN: YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I THINK IT SHOULD BE REFERRED OVER BECAUSE I THINK THE DIALOGUE HAS BEEN GOING ON. >>PAT BEAN: YES, IT HAS. >> RIGHT. >>KEN HAGAN: PERHAPS WE CAN, YOU KNOW, DO A LITTLE MORE, EXPLORE A COUPLE OTHER OPTIONS, BUT -- >>JIM NORMAN: I DON'T WANT TO ELIMINATE OUR COACHES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THAT'S WHAT -- I DIDN'T WANT TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD. >>KEN HAGAN: WELL, THAT WAS MY OPENING STATEMENT. YOU KNOW, I WANT TO KEEP IT AS CLOSE TO WHAT WE HAVE AS POSSIBLE. >>JIM NORMAN: RIGHT. >>KEN HAGAN: WITH THAT BEING SAID, WE CAN STILL -- WE NEED TO EXPLORE ALL THE OPTIONS. >>PAT BEAN: WELL, IF I COULD JUST MAKE A COMMENT. I'VE HAD MULTIPLE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE SUPERINTENDENT. HER MAIN CONCERN IS THAT IF SHE COULD GET AN ABSOLUTE GUARANTEE OF ONGOING REVENUE FROM THE COUNTY TO HELP RUN THE PROGRAM, SHE WOULD BE WILLING TO TALK FURTHER ABOUT IT, BUT SHE FEELS THAT WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THAT IF THE PROGRAM IS ESSENTIALLY TURNED OVER TO THE SCHOOL SYSTEM THAT WHILE WE MIGHT GIVE A SUBSIDY THE FIRST YEAR OR TWO THAT FUTURE BOARDS MIGHT NOT BE WILLING TO CONTINUE THAT SUBSIDY AND THEN SHE WOULD HAVE THE BURDEN OF HAVING TO TELL FAMILIES THAT THEY HAD TO CUT THE PROGRAM, AND THAT'S BASICALLY THE NATURE OF THE CONVERSATIONS AS WE LEFT THEM LAST, AND I JUST TALKED TO HER LAST WEEK. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>PAT BEAN: BUT WE'LL BE HAPPY TO CONTINUE TALKING. >>ROSE FERLITA: MS. BEAN, THAT -- THIS IS NOT WHERE I WAS GOING WITH SOME OF MY QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS, BUT IN CONJUNCTION WITH WHAT COMMISSIONER BECKNER IS SAYING, LAST YEAR WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THIS -- AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG OR MAYBE MY RECOLLECTION IS NOT ACCURATE -- I THOUGHT WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT PARTNERING WITH THEM OR YMCA OR SOMEBODY THAT WE TALKED ABOUT -- HOWEVER SLIGHTLY, WE TALKED ABOUT THE WHOLE PROCESS OF OUTSOURCING AND PERHAPS BRINGING IN, YOU KNOW, A PRIVATE-PUBLIC PARTNERSHIP TYPE RELATIONSHIP WHERE WE WOULD HAVE PEOPLE BID FOR TAKING CARE OF THESE PROGRAMS AT OUR PARKS, AT OUR RECREATIONAL SITES, AND IT WOULD BE A BID PROCESS, AND IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WAS HIGHER THAN WHAT WE WERE ABLE TO DO IT FOR, THEN, OF COURSE, WE HAD THE OPTION NOT TO ACCEPT THAT BID. DID WE NOT TALK ABOUT EXPANDING THAT OUTSOURCING POSSIBILITY? >>PAT BEAN: WE DID TALK ABOUT OUTSOURCING. I DON'T THINK WE EVER TALKED NECESSARILY ABOUT PUTTING OUT A BID PROCESS FOR THEM TO COME IN TO OUR FACILITIES. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. WELL, SO NOT TO BELABOR THAT NOW BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S GOING IN ANOTHER -- IN ANOTHER DIRECTION, BUT WHEN WE COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT WHAT MR. BECKNER WAS SAYING, CAN WE JUST AT LEAST REMOTELY LOOK AT THAT? >>PAT BEAN: SURE. >>ROSE FERLITA: BECAUSE THAT MIGHT BE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS. WE ALWAYS HAVE THE OPTIONS TO SAY, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, YOU'RE CHARGING OUR CITIZENS TOO MUCH, FORGET ABOUT IT, BUT AT LEAST LET'S RESEARCH THAT AND SEE WHERE THAT GOES. >>PAT BEAN: WE CAN DO THAT. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. SO -- ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. BACK TO SOME OF MY QUESTIONS, AND A COUPLE OF THEM ARE FOR YOU, MR. THORNTON, AND SOME FOR MR. JOHNSON, AND THEN THERE ARE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS THAT I HAVE THAT I DON'T KNOW WHO CAN GIVE ME SOME RESPONSES TO. MARK, I DON'T -- I DON'T BELIEVE YOU WERE HERE TUESDAY NIGHT. WERE YOU HERE? >>MARK THORNTON: YES. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. WELL, WE HAD A PRETTY CROWDED ARENA, SO I'M SORRY THAT I DIDN'T SEE WHETHER OR NOT YOU WERE HERE, BUT WHETHER YOU WERE HERE OR SOMEPLACE ELSE, YOU CERTAINLY HEARD THE EMOTIONAL RESPONSES WE GOT FROM PEOPLE. >>MARK THORNTON: YES. >>ROSE FERLITA: FROM YELLING AND CRYING AND CRITICIZING US AND BOOING US AND BEING MORE IRRITATED UPSTAIRS BECAUSE THEY WERE A LITTLE BIT WARM. IT WAS OBVIOUSLY AN EMOTIONALLY DRIVEN TYPE MEETING. AT THOSE TYPE OF MEETINGS I THINK -- AND THAT'S WHAT PUBLIC HEARINGS ARE FOR, FOR WE, THE BOARD, TO LISTEN TO PEOPLE'S CONCERNS AND FRUSTRATIONS AND EMOTIONS AND NOT REALLY TO CHALLENGE THEM BACK AND FORTH, MORE TO ABSORB WHAT THEY WANT US TO DO. AND I THINK ULTIMATELY BY ALL OUR CLOSING COMMENTS HOPEFULLY MOST OF THE PARENTS OF THE CHILDREN THAT THEY LOVE AND THE CHILDREN THAT WE ARE CHARGED TO PROTECT AS -- AS ELECTED OFFICIALS, THEY UNDERSTOOD THAT WE WERE NOT THE ENEMY. WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY NOW PERHAPS IS SOMETHING THAT I SHOULDN'T SAY BECAUSE I'M SURE AT SOME POINT I'LL BE STAMPEDED ON, BUT THAT'S ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO LIKEN THIS TO THE THREE-MINUTE PUBLIC COMMENT PORTION WE HAVE AT BOCC, AND I THINK THAT THE CHAIRMAN THAT STARTS OUR MEETING ALWAYS SAYS, YOU'RE FREE TO SAY WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY, BUT DON'T CRITICIZE ANYBODY PARTICULARLY ON A PERSONAL LEVEL. I HAD TO HOLD BACK THE OTHER NIGHT BECAUSE IN MY -- IN PEOPLE'S FRUSTRATION, I FOUND THEM SHIFTING THEIR FRUSTRATION FROM WHAT THEY WANTED US TO DO FOR THEIR KIDS - - AND IT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO FOR THEIR KIDS, AND SO THE PERSON THAT WAS CATCHING IT WAS MR. THORNTON, AND I DO WANT TO TELL YOU, WE ALL HAVE TOUGH JOBS. YOU HAVE A TOUGHER ONE THAN SOME OF US. I DID NOT HAVE THE PLEASURE NOR DO I STILL HAVE THE PLEASURE OF KNOWING ED RADICE, AND TO MANY -- SO MANY PEOPLE THAT WERE HERE BEFORE YOU AND BEFORE ME, ED RADICE WAS AND IS AN ICON. WELL, THAT KIND OF STRAPS YOU A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, WHAT YOU TRY TO DO -- AND I THINK YOU ARE A GREATER DIRECTOR, LET ME PUT THAT RIGHT ON THE COUNTER HERE -- YOU'RE A GREAT DIRECTOR, BUT THE COMPARISON ALWAYS WENT BACK TO HIM. I HOPE THAT AFTER WE LET OUR FRUSTRATIONS GO THE OTHER NIGHT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S NOT A WAY FOR US TO GO FORWARD. IT'S DIFFICULT TO FILL HIS SHOES, BUT YOU CAME HERE WITH A LOT OF CREDENTIALS AS WELL, SO I WANT TO PUT THAT OUT THERE AND COMPLIMENT YOU FOR WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO. AND I DON'T WANT A RESPONSE TO THAT. A COUPLE OF THINGS I HAVE, MARK, THAT I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT. LOOKING AT THE SUMMARY OF DECISION UNITS, YOU'VE GOT A PRIORITY LIST FROM LOWEST TO HIGHEST, AND JUST -- JUST FOR MY OWN CLARIFICATION, NUMBER EIGHT PRIORITY IS PARKS CONSTRUCTION, 1.36 MILLION, I BELIEVE. YOU KNOW WHERE I AM? >>MARK THORNTON: YES. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. CAN I ASK YOU SOMETHING? WOULD THERE BE ANY BENEFIT TO LOOKING AT THAT AGAIN, MARK? IT SEEMS TO ME AT THIS CRUNCH TIME BETTER THAN PUTTING A PRIORITY EIGHT ON PARKS CONSTRUCTION, WHY WOULDN'T WE BUMP THAT UP THE PRIORITY LIST AND MAYBE LOOK AT SOME OF THE OTHERS LIKE 16 OR 20 OR 12 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT BECAUSE I THINK RIGHT NOW STAFF WORRYING ABOUT PARKS CONSTRUCTION IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS STAFF TRYING TO HOLD WHAT WE HAVE, AND THAT'S -- THAT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT -- THAT I THINK YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK AT. NOW, I DON'T KNOW IF -- IF IT'S OKAY IF I SHIFT TO MR. JOHNSON FOR A QUESTION ON THIS AS WELL. >>KEN HAGAN: SURE. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. MR. JOHNSON, JUST EXPLAIN THIS TO ME TOO BECAUSE I'M TRYING AS BEST AS I CAN TO UNDERSTAND THE BUDGET, AND WE ALL KNOW IT'S PRETTY TOUGH TO GO THROUGH THIS UNLESS WE'RE CPAs AND EVERYTHING ELSE, BUT AGAIN, ON THE DECISION UNITS, PAGE 3 OF 72, I NOTICE THAT YOUR MAINTENANCE NORTH -- UNDER MINIMAL SERVICE LEVEL, YOUR MAINTENANCE NORTH WAS SHIFTED TO UNINCORPORATED FROM GENERAL FUND, AND I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT THE RATIONALE WAS BEHIND THAT. I JUST WONDER WHY. BECAUSE THAT -- >>ERIC JOHNSON: YES, COMMISSIONERS -- >>ROSE FERLITA: THAT PUTS A HARDSHIP -- YOU KNOW WHERE I'M GOING. >>ERIC JOHNSON: COMMISSIONERS, TWO THINGS. ONE IS AS THE BOARD MAY OR MAY NOT REALIZE, ACTUALLY OUR GREATEST FUNDING CHALLENGE IS COUNTYWIDE, NOT UNINCORPORATED. AS WE WENT THROUGH AND LOOKED AT BOTH OF THE FUNDING SOURCES THAT THE PARKS, RECREATION, AND CONVERSATION DEPARTMENT RELY ON AND DISCUSSED THOSE ACTIVITIES, WHAT WE IDENTIFIED WITH THE DEPARTMENT WAS THAT THAT MAINTENANCE ACTIVITY IS REALLY, LIKE I THINK THE SOUTH MAINTENANCE UNIT, ASSOCIATED NOT WITH OUR REGIONAL PARK SYSTEM BUT WITH OUR DISTRICT AND NEIGHBORHOOD PARKS WHICH ARE REALLY IN AN UNINCORPORATED OBLIGATION, AND SO IT WAS REALLY LOOKING AT THE ACTIVITY OF THE STAFF ASSOCIATED WITH THAT DECISION UNIT AND IDENTIFYING THAT THEIR ACTIVITY REALLY ISN'T UNINCORPORATED, IT'S MORE IN LINE WITH WHAT A MUNICIPALITY DOES WITH MUNICIPAL PARKS AS OPPOSED TO WHAT WE WOULD DO IN OUR COUNTYWIDE OBLIGATION TO MAINTAIN OUR REGIONAL PARKS. IF YOU GO OUT AND LOOK AT THE REGIONAL PARKS OR VISIT ONE, WHAT YOU FREQUENTLY FIND IS THAT THE STAFF ASSOCIATED WITH THAT PARK ARE AS PART OF THEIR ROUTINE BUSINESS DOING THE MAINTENANCE ACTIVITIES AT THE PARK. >>ROSE FERLITA: YOU KIND OF ANSWERED MY FIRST QUESTION. MY NEXT TABBED PAGE WAS GOING TO BE TO THE SOUTH MAINTENANCE ON THE SERVICE LEVEL. YOU ANSWERED THAT, AND I UNDERSTAND THE RATIONALE. ONE LAST COMMENT I WANT TO MAKE IN TERMS OF THIS CATEGORY THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING IS, AGAIN, BACK TO THE PEOPLE THAT WERE HERE THE OTHER NIGHT. THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT ALL THESE THINGS THAT AFFECT THEIR CHILDREN, AND WE UNDERSTAND WHY THEY'RE SO FRUSTRATED AND PANICKED. WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CHILDREN'S BOARD AND THE CHILDREN'S BOARD IS ABOUT CHILDREN STUFF, ABOUT OUR CHILDREN. I KNOW THAT MR. SHARPE REPRESENTS US, BUT HE'S ONLY ONE PERSON ON THAT -- ON THAT COMMISSION OR THAT COMMITTEE. I LOOKED A LITTLE BIT AT -- AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WEREN'T TALKING TOO MUCH ABOUT CHILDREN'S BOARD, BUT PEOPLE PAY TAXES TO THE CHILDREN'S BOARD. IT'S PART OF THE MILLAGE. THEY DO PAY TAXES, AND TYPICALLY I THINK RESERVES ARE USUALLY ABOUT 10% OF THE TOTAL BUDGET, MORE OR LESS, IN TERMS OF GENERAL PRINCIPLES, AND LOOKING AT THEIR -- THEIR INFORMATION, LIKE, SAY, OCTOBER 2008, THE END OF THAT, THEIR -- THEIR RESERVES, THEIR CASH BALANCE WAS ALMOST $22 MILLION. NOW, THAT IS WAY, WAY, WAY OUT OF LINE WITH WHAT THEIR BUDGET IS, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE CAN DO THAT. AND MARK, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT -- BUT THAT IS RIDICULOUS. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS WHEN THEY'RE SITTING ON $22 MILLION. IT IS CALLED -- LISTEN TO ME -- A CHILDREN'S BOARD THAT PEOPLE PAY TAXES TO, SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY'RE NOT COMING AROUND. WE TALKED ABOUT WORKING WITH OTHER GROUPS. THIS IS A GROUP THAT NEEDS TO BE WORKING WITH US ABOUT WHAT THE HIGHEST AND MOST FRUSTRATING CONVERSATION WAS TUESDAY NIGHT, ABOUT SERVICES THAT AFFECT OUR CITIZENS' CHILDREN. I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE CAN DO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE CAN MAKE THEM DO, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S AN ANSWER ERIC CAN GIVE ME, PAT CAN GIVE ME. >>MARK SHARPE: I WILL SECOND, THIRD, AND FOURTH THAT. I SENT A LETTER TO LUANNE PANACEK LAST NIGHT. WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR WELL OVER A YEAR. IT IS THE MOST FRUSTRATING THING, AND WE -- YOU KNOW, THAT -- I HATE TO JUMP IN, BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, AND THIS IS -- PEOPLE DON'T EVEN KNOW THEY'RE PAYING THIS TAX, MANY OF THEM. THIS IS THE CHILDREN'S BOARD DEALING WITH CHILDREN'S PROGRAMS, AND -- AND THE PARENTS HERE THAT ARE TALKING -- THE CHILDREN'S BOARD HAS SPENT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS DOING STUDIES ANALYZING THE VALUE OF AFTERSCHOOL DAY PROGRAMS FOR KIDS, YET THEY DON'T FUND THE PROGRAMS, SO I - - I'LL MAKE SURE WE AGENDA THAT ITEM AT OUR CHILDREN'S BOARD MEETING. >>ROSE FERLITA: AND MARK, BELIEVE ME, I -- YOU'RE JUST ONE MEMBER. I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU CAN DO, BUT, I MEAN, JUST BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO, THEY REALLY IMMEDIATE TO START CONTRIBUTING. >>MARK SHARPE: THE CHILDREN'S BOARD -- I BROUGHT THIS UP SEVERAL YEARS AGO. THE CHILDREN'S BOARD PHILOSOPHY IS THEY DON'T DO SLOTS. THEY CALL IT SLOTS. THEY DON'T FILL SLOTS. THEY'RE ABOUT NOT DEALING -- THEY FOCUS ON TRYING TO PREVENT ISSUES THROUGH EDUCATION AND A WHOLE HOST OF OTHER THINGS AND NOT TAKING CARE OF THE PROBLEM AS IT STARES US IN THE FACE, AND IT'S AN EXCELLENT ORGANIZATION. THEY DO A LOT OF VERY GOOD WORK. THERE'S SOME VERY GOOD PEOPLE OVER THERE WHO ARE HIGHLY DEDICATED AND LOVE KIDS, BUT I THINK IN THIS TIME AND THIS CLIMATE WITH THE PROBLEMS WE'RE FACING IMMEDIATE, I ABSOLUTELY THINK THEY NEED TO BE STEPPING UP AND MAKING SURE THAT THERE'S NOT A SINGLE CHILD WAITING FOR AN AFTERSCHOOL DAY PROGRAM THAT DOESN'T HAVE IT AND DOESN'T HAVE IT AS COACH -- AS COACH NORMAN -- AS COMMISSIONER NORMAN HAS SAID, YOU KNOW, WITH THEIR COACHES AT THEIR PARK. >> THAT'S RIGHT. >>MARK SHARPE: I MEAN, THIS IS A NO-BRAINER, SO I'M SO GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>ROSE FERLITA: THESE ARE NO LONGER SLOTS, THESE ARE -- >>MARK SHARPE: THESE ARE CHILDREN. >>ROSE FERLITA: -- BIG HUGE GAPS THAT WE NEED HELP. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>ROSE FERLITA: MARK, IF YOU COULD JUST KIND OF KEEP US POSTED ON WHAT PROGRESS? >>MARK SHARPE: YES, MA'AM. >>JIM NORMAN: I JUST WANT TO THROW A COUPLE THINGS IN HERE. FIRST OF ALL, COMMISSIONER HAGAN -- AND I KNOW YOU PROBABLY FEEL THIS WAY TOO -- WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS HYBRID PROGRAM, AS WE'RE HOPEFULLY -- AND I APPRECIATE THE STAFF, WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO TO TRY TO BE CREATIVE AND FUNDS THAT MAY FLOW INTO THE PARK SYSTEM TO MAKE THIS WORK. YOU KNOW, LIKE THE OTHER NIGHT, THE BUSLOADS THAT CAME DOWN HERE, I DON'T WANT TO FORGET THE OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM. THEY'RE NOT -- THEY DON'T DRAW DOWN MUCH ON THE DOLLARS, BUT LIKE THE OWLS AND -- YOU HEARD THOSE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WHATEVER, SAYING THAT'S THE ONLY THING THEY HAVE. THEY'RE USING OUR BUILDING, AND THE ONLY THING WE'RE DOING IS SETTING UP SOME CHAIRS FOR THEM. THEY'RE FUNDRAISING, THEY'RE PUTTING MONEY BACK INTO US. YOU KNOW, AND THIS HYBRID THING, LET'S JUST DON'T FLUSH THEM OUT EITHER. >>MARK THORNTON: CERTAINLY. >>JIM NORMAN: LET'S JUST MAKE SURE WE HAVE A VERY STRUCTURED COMPONENT HERE THAT WE'RE -- WE TOUCH THE MOST LIVES. AND AS FAR AS THE CHILDREN'S BOARD, COMMISSIONER, I FEEL YOUR PAIN. I SERVED OVER THERE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT -- WHAT COMMISSIONER SHARPE IS SAYING, YEARS AGO ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAD IN THIS COUNTY, WE HAD A MASSIVE FLOOD. I MEAN, PEOPLE -- AND THE TOWN 'N COUNTRY AREA WAS FLOODED, I MEAN, OVER IN THE UNIVERSITY AREA, FLOODING EVERYWHERE. WATER WAS UP TO HERE. IT WAS LITERALLY -- YOU KNOW WE DID IN COUNTY GOVERNMENT UNDER A CRISIS LIKE THAT? WE LITERALLY SHUT DOWN DEPARTMENTS, SHIFTED PEOPLE OVER TO HELP MAN-UP, WOMAN-UP, EVERYTHING WE COULD TO GIVE HOURS TO ALLEVIATE PUMPS OUT THERE. IT WAS A CRISIS KIND OF THING. WHAT I WOULD HOPE MAYBE SOME OF THE SOLUTIONS AT THE CHILDREN'S BOARD IS, YOU KNOW WHAT, THESE STUDIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT ARE ONGOING OR WHATEVER, MAYBE THEY COULD LOOK AT THIS AS -- THESE TWO-YEAR PERIODS AS A CRISIS TIME, SHIFT MONEY DURING A CRISIS PERIOD TO ONGOING PROGRAMS TO KEEP THEM GOING UNTIL THE ECONOMY COMES BACK ON A -- ON A SLOT, IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT THAT, BUT THOSE ARE -- YOU KNOW, ANYWAY, THAT'S SOMETHING I WOULD HOPE THEY COULD LOOK AT ON THE IMMEDIATE NEED. ONE OF THE THINGS IS, MARK -- THAT WE USED TO DO -- AND MAYBE WITH THESE SLOTTINGS OF THESE PROGRAMS AND OTHER THINGS WAS THAT YOUTH FOOTBALL, YOUTH BASEBALL, THINGS LIKE THAT, WE WOULD HAVE ACTUALLY HALF SCHOLARSHIPS, PARTIAL SCHOLARSHIPS, THINGS LIKE THAT. INSTEAD OF JUST GIVING THE KID MONEY OR GIVING THE FAMILY MONEY OR WHATEVER, YOU SCHOLARSHIPED THEM, AND THAT WAY THAT KIND OF THING WORKED. >>MARK THORNTON: WE STILL DO THAT. >>JIM NORMAN: SOMETHING THAT I HAVEN'T HEARD AS A FUNDING STREAM, AND I DON'T KNOW -- AND I KNOW THE LEGISLATURE SETTLED ON THIS KIND OF STUFF. WHERE DID THE SETTLEMENT WITH THE INDIANS -- THERE WAS THIS $150 MILLION OR SOMETHING. I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GETTING ANY KIND OF SHARE OR PIECE OR WHATEVER. YOU COULD DEDICATE THAT TO THESE PROGRAMS. ALSO, I KNOW THAT THE PARI-MUTUEL TAX WENT DOWN, TABLE RATES WENT UP. THERE'S A SHIFT IN PROMOTION OF THINGS, AND IT ALL IS JUST OUT THERE, AND OUR KIDS PROGRAMS AND THINGS LIKE THAT AREN'T GETTING THE INFUSION. I KNOW THERE WAS -- YEARS AGO THERE WAS A BILL. IT WAS A $500,000 ALLOTMENT OF -- EVERY COUNTY IN THE STATE GOT $500,000. WE ENTERED INTO SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT THAT WE SHIFTED THE $500,000 DIRECTLY TO THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, AND THE SCHOOL SYSTEM HAS BEEN UTILIZING THAT $500,000 EVERY YEAR. >>PAT BEAN: THEY HAVE IT BONDED. >>JIM NORMAN: YEAH. WHAT I'M SAYING IS IT'S A PASS-THROUGH TO US. HAS THAT BEEN LOOKED AT, HAS IT BEEN ADJUSTED, OR, YOU KNOW, WITH ALL THESE CHANGES WITH WHAT THE STATE IS DOING WITH THE INDIAN RESERVATIONS AND THE DIFFERENCE IN TAX LEVELS WITH THE LOCAL PARI-MUTUELS, TABLE RATES, THEIR POKERS, THEIR -- ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF GOING ON, ARE WE AT -- I HATE TO SAY THIS BUT AT THE TABLE TO GET SOME -- MAYBE WE COULD GET A DIRECT FUNDING TO OUR PARK SYSTEM OR SOME FUNDING THAT WAY. DO WE KNOW? >>PAT BEAN: EDITH AND I TALK ABOUT THAT PERIODICALLY BECAUSE I WANT TO STAY ON TOP OF THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE GOING TO GET SOME MONEY. THE LAST THAT I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HER, IT HAD STILL NOT BEEN WORKED OUT. IT'S -- THE GOVERNOR HADN'T SIGNED THE BILL THE LAST TIME. DO YOU KNOW, EDITH, HAS HE SIGNED IT NOW? WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, BUT WE'LL CHECK. BUT WE'RE TRYING TO STAY ON TOP OF IT. THE LAST TIME SHE CHECKED HE HAD NOT SIGNED IT, AND OF COURSE, ONCE HE SIGNS IT, THEN THE ISSUE OF THE DISCUSSION HAS TO TAKE PLACE. >>JIM NORMAN: IT WENT FROM A -- I DON'T KNOW. IT WAS SOME MATTER OF A BILLION-DOLLAR SETTLEMENT DOWN TO 150 MILLION OR WHATEVER. ONE OF THE THINGS I DO KNOW -- AND THIS IS GOING TO BE OFF THE RESERVATION A LITTLE BIT, BUT I'D LIKE TO ASK THAT OUR ADMINISTRATOR AND OUR CHAIRMAN ACTUALLY GO MEET WITH THE HEAD OF THE INDIAN RESERVATION FOLKS, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THEY GOT A SETTLEMENT ON WAS BLACKJACK AND THINGS LIKE THAT, MORE SO THAN ANY OTHER -- THERE WAS ONLY LIKE TWO OR THREE IN THE STATE THAT GOT THAT KIND OF SETTLEMENT. WITHOUT HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY STEPPING UP STRONGLY NEXT YEAR TO START OPPOSING A LOT OF THESE KIND OF THINGS, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF OUR CHAIRMAN AND PAT CAN GO MEET WITH THE HEAD OF THE INDIAN RESERVATION. WE FUND FIRE, POLICE, ROAD. I'D LIKE TO SEE IF THEY WITH THE INCREASE -- THEY'RE BUILDING A GIANT HOTEL OUT THERE, SOME THOUSAND-PLUS ROOMS. I THINK THERE'S -- I'D LIKE TO SEE THEM BE A CORPORATE DONOR AND MAYBE STEP UP AND BAIL OUT SOME OF OUR YOUTH PROGRAMS. >>PAT BEAN: WE'LL BE HAPPY TO GO TALK TO THEM. >>JIM NORMAN: AND I'D LIKE TO MAKE THAT AS A MOTION TO ASK OUR ADMINISTRATION TO MEET WITH THE INDIAN FOLKS. >>KEVIN WHITE: SECOND. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. WE'VE GOT A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER NORMAN, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER WHITE. ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THE MOTION? COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: AND IN YOUR MOTION, WHEN YOU GO, YOU MAY WANT TO -- I'M SORRY. WHO'S MOTION? >>JIM NORMAN: [INAUDIBLE] >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: YEAH. YOU GO. YOU MAY WANT TO APPROACH THE RESERVATION -- THIS MAY BE -- MAY WANT TO BE PART OF YOUR MOTION THAT IT'S TIED TO EDUCATIONAL -- EDUCATIONAL ISSUES RELATED TO INDIAN CULTURE IN FLORIDA. THAT MAY HELP THEM FIND A WAY -- >>JIM NORMAN: I WANT CORPORATE -- WE -- OUR GAPS AND HOLES ARE YOUTH, AND I'D LIKE TO SEE MAYBE A DIRECT INFUSION OF OUR LOCAL YOUTH IN KIDS PROGRAMS IN OUR COUNTY. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: I AGREE WITH IT. I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE MAYBE -- >>JIM NORMAN: WE CAN ADD -- WE CAN STRUCTURE -- BUT I MEAN, THE BANG I'M GOING FOR IS TO HELP US WITH THE FUNDING STREAM OF OUR PARKS AND REC, THEM OPERATING IN OUR COUNTY, MAKING DEALS WITH THE STATE. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: OKAY. >>JIM NORMAN: ALL THESE FROM BLACKJACK TO I GUESS SLOT MACHINES GOING ON. WE'RE FUNDING A LOT OF THEIR SERVICES AND GETTING NOTHING BACK, SO, YOU KNOW, I'D LOVE TO SEE OUR KIDS GET THE LOVE, YOU KNOW. THAT'S -- >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: ME TOO. AND WHEN I SAY EDUCATION, I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT IN YOUR REC PROGRAMS. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. PLEASE RECORD YOUR VOTE ON THE MOTION. >>RECORDING SECRETARY: MOTION CARRIED 7-0. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. MOST OF WHAT I WANTED TO SAY HAS BEEN SAID ALREADY, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I WANT TO COMMENT ON WAS COMMISSIONER BECKNER'S MOTION FOR A DIALOGUE WITH THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, WHICH I THINK IS QUITE APPROPRIATE, AND WE'VE SAID THAT MANY TIMES, EVEN BEFORE HE JOINED THIS BOARD, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THE SCHOOL BOARD HAS THAT WE DON'T HAVE IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION. THEY HAVE MANY ASPECTS OF THIS THAT WE DON'T HAVE AS FAR AS FUNDING THAT WILL HELP REDUCE OUR COSTS, AND EVEN WHEN COMMISSIONER NORMAN WAS SAYING THAT HE DOESN'T WANT ANY OF THE COACHES OR ANYONE ELSE TO LOSE THEIR PARTICULAR PLACES OF EMPLOYMENT, THE SCHOOL BOARD CAN STILL GIVE OUR CHILDREN TRANSPORTATION TO THE PARKS THAT ARE CLOSEST TO EACH ONE OF THE CHILDREN'S HOMES IN WHICH THEY GO TO NOW, AND IF WE CAN SAVE MONEY IN THAT ASPECT BY PARTNERING WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD AND GETTING KIDS TRANSPORTED WHERE WE NEED TO IN A TIMELY FASHION AND IN A SAFE FASHION, I THINK WE NEED TO DO ALL THAT WE CAN IN THESE BUDGETARY TIMES TO LOOK AT THAT AND CONSIDERING PARTNERSHIPS AND CONSOLIDATION OF SERVICES, SO I WANT TO STRONGLY CONTINUE TO ENCOURAGE THAT AS WELL. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>MARK SHARPE: I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE, MR. THORNTON, THAT YOU WORKED WITH MR. PAPIN AND THE OTHERS ON -- WE'LL BE PUTTING TOGETHER BOTH A -- I THINK WE NEED TO MEET WITH THE CHILDREN'S BOARD BUT ALSO THEN HAVE A FORMAL ITEM WHERE WE COULD TAKE TO THE BOARD REQUESTING, AS COMMISSIONER NORMAN SUGGESTED, IN THIS EMERGENCY-LIKE SITUATION THAT THEY STEP UP AND DO WHAT THEY CAN DO AND HELP US. THEY STEPPED UP AND HELPED I KNOW DOTTIE BERGER WHEN SHE HAD HER HOME, AND THEY DIDN'T WANT TO DO THE FULL AMOUNT. WE HAD TO GO BACK AND REALLY PUSH HARD, BUT WE GOT THE FULL AMOUNT BECAUSE IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, SO -- AND EVEN WITH MR. PAPIN'S -- IS IT -- IS IT THE AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAM, PRESCHOOL FOR HOMELESS CHILDREN? >> [INAUDIBLE] >>MARK SHARPE: IT'S PHENOMENAL. WON ALL -- JUST WON A LOT OF RECOGNITIONS. I WANT TO THANK TOM FOR WHAT HE'S DONE, BUT THIS IS SOMETHING WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO DO ASAP. >>KEVIN WHITE: MR. CHAIRMAN, I'M SORRY, I FORGOT TO ASK MR. THORNTON A QUESTION. THERE WAS ONE THING IN THE BACKUP THAT I WAS UNCLEAR ON. WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT THE COACHES HAVING TO POTENTIALLY PROVIDE THEIR OWN BACKGROUND CHECKS, AND IF THEY DID, HOW MUCH WOULD THAT, I GUESS, SAVE? >>MARK THORNTON: ONE OF THE LINE ITEMS, THAT DECISION UNIT I BELIEVE IS 133,000. I DON'T HAVE IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. >> YES. >>MARK THORNTON: WE HAVE -- WE DO ALL THE BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR ALL THE COACHES FROM ALL THE YOUTH LEAGUES. IF YOU RECALL, WHAT WAS IT, ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO, WE WENT THROUGH A PRETTY -- >>KEVIN WHITE: IS THAT JUST LOCAL OR FEDERAL? STATE? >>MARK THORNTON: IT'S STATE. >>KEVIN WHITE: AND DO YOU HAVE THE BREAKDOWN OF WHAT YOU PAY PER BACKGROUND CHECK? >>MARK THORNTON: IT'S $27 ACTUALLY. >>KEVIN WHITE: OKAY. IF YOU PAY THAT FOR THEM, I'LL DO MY PART AND HELP THIS COUNTY BUDGET. I'LL DO IT FOR $19 THROUGH MY COMPANY FOR YOU. IF YOU SEND THE COACHES TO ME, I'LL DO MY PART, AND THAT WILL SAVE THE COUNTY AND THE COACHES $7 PER BACKGROUND CHECK, AND I'LL DO A NATIONAL BACKGROUND CHECK FOR YOU. >>MARK THORNTON: WE LOOKED AT THAT WHOLE DECISION UNIT, THE NUMBER OF COACHES AND THE TOTAL COST, BECAUSE WE HAVE ONE EMPLOYEE THAT MANAGES ALL THAT. IT WOULD COST US WITH CURRENT BACKGROUND CHECK COSTS, BECAUSE THAT'S A CONTRACTED AMOUNT, ABOUT $40, AND WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING WITH THE ADMINISTRATOR TO -- TO RESOLVE SOME OF THAT WITH SOME FEES -- USER FEES TO THE COACHES, BASICALLY, AND LOOK AT OTHER WAYS TO -- WITH SOME -- ACTUALLY SOME EQUIPMENT THAT TOM PAPIN'S ACQUIRED, WE THINK WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET THAT COST DOWN. THE POINT IS IS THAT WE DON'T WANT TO STEP BACK FROM WHERE WE WERE BECAUSE WE GOT A PRETTY GOOD BLOODY NOSE GETTING TO THE POINT OF WHERE WE ARE, AND IT'S BEEN EXTREMELY POSITIVE AND SUCCESSFUL, SO WE'RE GOING TO WORK TO TRY TO BRING BACK RECOMMENDATIONS ON MAKING SURE THAT THAT PROGRAM STAYS AT THE LOWEST COST POSSIBLE. >>KEVIN WHITE: ABSOLUTELY. WELL, SURELY, I'D BE GLAD TO HELP YOU NEGOTIATE THAT. >>MARK THORNTON: OKAY. THANK YOU. >>KEVIN WHITE: BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT INDUSTRY ACTUAL COSTS ARE ON THAT, AND IF WE HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE THE COUNTY TO GET THAT DONE FOR YOU, WE'LL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO HELP YOU DO THAT. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: IN LINE WITH MR. NORMAN THERE ON SEEKING OUT HELP WITH THE PARKS -- THE SCHOOL PROGRAMS FOR KIDS AND GOING TO THE SEMINOLE TRIBE, I HAD MENTIONED THE OTHER NIGHT IN THE MEETING -- AND I DON'T KNOW -- I DIDN'T SEE IT ON THE AGENDA TODAY, BUT GOING -- IF ADDITION TO SWFWMD THROUGH BASIN BOARDS AND THE FUNDING THAT'S AVAILABLE THERE THROUGH EDUCATIONAL GRANTS THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATELY -- COULD APPROPRIATELY BE USED HERE, AND I KNOW THERE'S A WILLINGNESS TO DO THAT, AND THEY'RE EAGER TO HEAR -- HEAR FROM US, SO IF WE NEED THAT AS A MOTION, I'LL MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE, IN ADDITION, INSTRUCT THE ADMINISTRATOR -- AND IF YOU NEED ME OR THE CHAIRMAN -- IT DOESN'T -- I DON'T CARE WHO DOES IT -- TO HELP WITH THAT, THAT THEY REACH OUT TO SWFWMD AND THEIR BASIN BOARDS FOR ADDITIONAL GRANTS AND FUNDING. >>JIM NORMAN: SECOND. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. WE'VE GOT A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: I DON'T KNOW, THOUGH, ABOUT YOUR COMMENT THAT THEY'RE ANXIOUS TO HEAR FROM US. [LAUGHTER] >>KEN HAGAN: IF THERE ARE NO COMMENTS, PLEASE RECORD YOUR VOTE. >>RECORDING SECRETARY: MOTION CARRIED 7-0. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FOR MR. THORNTON? THANK YOU, SIR. >>MARK THORNTON: THANK YOU. >>JIM NORMAN: I DO WANT TO SAY SOMETHING, SOMETHING THAT - - THAT ROSE SAID A FEW MINUTES AGO. BUT WHAT YOU-ALL MISSED KIND OF -- THERE WAS AN INTERIM HERE, THERE WAS ED RADICE, AND THEN WE HAD ANOTHER DIRECTOR IN HERE. THIS MAN HAS COME IN HERE AND GONE FROM -- IT WENT FROM ED RADICE DOWN -- WAY DOWN, AND THIS GUY HAS BEEN DOING A GREAT JOB IN BUILDING THAT STRUCTURE BACK UP. I LIVED THROUGH THEM BOTH. ED FROM WORKING OUT OF THE BACK OF HIS CAR TRYING TO BUILD A PARKS SYSTEM TO SEEING IT REALLY CRUMBLE, AND THIS MAN REALLY HAS DONE A GREAT JOB, AND I WANT TO COMPLIMENT ON YOUR COMMENTS THAT YOU -- >>ROSE FERLITA: WELL, AND THE REASON THAT I SAID THAT, JIM, IS EVERYBODY'S FRUSTRATED, BUT IT WAS REALLY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO CRITICIZE THE DIRECTOR WHEN HE'S TRYING TO DO, WE'RE TRYING TO DO, THEY'RE TRYING TO DO THE BEST FOR THE KIDS, SO -- >>MARK THORNTON: THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: NEXT ITEM. >>PAT BEAN: NEXT DEPARTMENT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IS CHILDREN'S SERVICES. MANUS. >>MANUS O'DONNELL: IN CHILDREN'S SERVICES, THEY ANTICIPATED THAT WE COULD EARN NEW REVENUE, SO ONE OF THE THINGS THEY'VE DONE IN THE PAST YEAR WAS TO GET MEDICAID CERTIFIED. THEY'RE ABLE TO GET REIMBURSEMENTS NOW WHERE THE DEPARTMENT WAS PROVIDING SERVICES, AND IT WAS ALL OUT OF COUNTY DOLLARS, SO AS PART OF THE EFFICIENCIES THAT ARE IN HERE, THE CHILDREN'S SERVICES DEPARTMENT HAS $557,000 OF NEW REVENUE TO THE COUNTY, AND I COMMEND THEM FOR THAT. THE THINGS THAT ARE IN THEIR PROPOSED BUDGET THAT WOULD BE ELIMINATED WOULD -- AND THEIR EFFICIENCIES TOTAL $1.4 MILLION, SO THAT'S SIGNIFICANT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD BE PROPOSED TO BE CUT WOULD BE TO REDUCE THE CLOTHING ALLOWANCE FOR 54 CHILDREN. IT WOULD BE REDUCED FROM $500 TO $300. AND THAT WOULD BE AN ANNUAL ALLOWANCE FOR NEW CLOTHING FOR THE KIDS. ELIMINATE CHILD-CARE CENTER LICENSING. AGAIN, YOU HEARD FROM A LOT OF THOSE FOLKS THE OTHER NIGHT AS WELL. THERE'S 610 CHILD-CARE CENTERS. THEY ALSO WOULD BE ELIMINATING SOME MANAGER POSITIONS. THERE'S FOUR MANAGERS THAT THEY'VE REMOVED FROM THEIR BUDGET. IN FY 11 WE WOULD BE REDUCING THE HEAD START ALLOTMENT. THEY HAVE VOLUNTEERED AS AN EFFICIENCY THIS YEAR REDUCING THEIR BUDGET BY 300,000, AND WE'RE LOOKING TO THEM TO REDUCE IT BY ANOTHER 600,000 IN FY 11, BUT WE HAVEN'T SPECIFIED WHERE THAT IS YET. AND THEN ALSO IN FY 11 WE'D BE ELIMINATING THE CHILD-CARE HOME LICENSING, AND I'M DIFFERENTIATING BECAUSE WE LICENSE DAY-CARE CENTERS. WE ALSO LICENSE DAY-CARE HOMES, AND FOR CHILD-CARE HOMES THERE ARE 687 HOMES WITHIN THE COUNTY. THE TOTAL AMOUNT THAT WOULD BE IN THEIR BUDGET, INCLUDING THE EFFICIENCIES, WOULD BE $2.8 MILLION THAT WOULD BE CUT, AND THAT AMOUNT'S TO 26 POSITIONS, AND IN FY 11 IT WOULD BE $3.8 MILLION AND 30 POSITIONS. JOINING ME TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS IS THE PERSON THAT WON THE NACO 2009 HUMAN SERVICES DIRECTOR OF THE YEAR AWARD, TOM PAPIN. [APPLAUSE] >>PAT BEAN: YAY! >>KEN HAGAN: GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. PAPIN. >>TOM PAPIN: GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS, MR. CHAIR. IT'S REALLY MY PLEASURE TO INTRODUCE LINDA STOLLER, WHO IS WITH ME IN CASE YOU HAVE ANY REAL TOUGH QUESTIONS. LINDA'S BEEN THE MANAGER OF CHILD-CARE LICENSING FOR MANY YEARS, AND I THINK HER LEADERSHIP IS REFLECTED IN THE FACT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE TURNED OUT THE OTHER NIGHT TO ADVOCATE FOR LINDA AND HER TEAM TO CONTINUE PROVIDING THAT SERVICE. USUALLY IN REGULATORY AGENCIES THEY WANT GOVERNMENT OUT, AND ESPECIALLY NOTICEABLE WAS THE FAITH-BASED COMMUNITY WHO USUALLY SAYS, GOVERNMENT STAY OUT OF OUR CHILD-CARE WELCOMING US IN, SO LINDA CAN BE THANKED FOR THAT, BUT I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE, AS LONG AS THEY'RE EASY ONES, AND LINDA WILL HANDLE THE TOUGH ONES. [LAUGHTER] >>KEN HAGAN: WELL STATED, TOM. COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: THANK YOU. I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE LOOK AT OUR CHILD-CARE LICENSING. AS I MENTIONED IN THE MEETING, I'VE HAD SEVERAL CHILD-CARE LICENSED PROVIDERS PROVIDE COMPLAINTS AS WELL AS COMPLIMENTS TO THE ORGANIZATION. MS. STOLLER HAS SAT IN ON SOME OF THOSE MEETINGS IN MY OFFICE WITH CHILD-CARE PROVIDERS THAT HAVE BEEN NOT TOTALLY IN SUPPORT OF WHAT THEY WERE BEING COMPLAINED ON AND THE COMPLAINTS THAT THEY RECEIVED, BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN, THEY WERE VERY APPRECIATIVE OF THE SERVICES THAT HER ORGANIZATION PROVIDES, AND IT'S IMPORTANT AND IT'S CRITICAL TO THE SAFETY, HEALTH, AND WELFARE OF OUR CHILDREN THAT WE CONTINUE THESE SERVICES BECAUSE IT KEEPS OUR CHILDREN OUT OF HARM'S WAY, IT KEEPS POTENTIAL PEDOPHILES OUT OF OUR DAY CARES AND ESPECIALLY OUT OF THE HOME LICENSING PORTION. IT'S JUST CRITICAL AND IMPERATIVE, AND LIKE I SAID, THERE'S NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN OUR CHILDREN AND KEEPING THEM OUT OF HARM'S WAY, AND MS. STOLLER, KUDOS TO YOU AND YOUR ORGANIZATION. LIKE I SAID, IN ANY ORGANIZATION WHERE THERE'S REGULATORY SUPERVISION, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE 100% BUY-IN, BUT I THINK AS -- OVERALL AND TOTALLY AS A WHOLE AS A COMMUNITY, I DON'T THINK ANY ONE OF US, ESPECIALLY A BOARD MEMBER, THINKS THERE'S ANYTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN KEEPING OUR CHILDREN SAFE IN OUR COMMUNITY, AND I WANTED TO APPLAUD YOU FOR THAT, AND LIKE I SAID, EVEN THOUGH WE DO GET COMPLAINTS, WE DO GET AS MANY COMPLIMENTS, AND THAT IS A NECESSARY -- NECESSARY COMPONENT OF OUR SOCIETY, ESPECIALLY WITH SOME OF THE ILLS THAT WE SEE ON TV ON A DAILY BASIS REGARDING WHAT'S HAPPENING TO OUR CHILDREN, AND I BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE DOING A WONDERFUL JOB AND IT NEEDS TO CONTINUE. >>TOM PAPIN: THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THE SAME KIND OF THING WE MADE LAST NIGHT, YOU'RE GOING TO WORK WITH THESE FOLKS AND DO THE SAME KIND OF STRUCTURE AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN -- I MEAN ANIMAL SERVICES, THAT THE FEE STRUCTURE IS BALANCED, AND I KNOW THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT BOARD MEMBERS, I GOTTA TELL YOU WHAT REALLY STUCK IN MY MIND LAST NIGHT WAS HOW ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WERE COMING HERE, THOSE WERE THE STELLAR PROGRAMS. THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT WERE OFFERING THE REALLY QUALITY SERVICES FOR THE KIDS. DID YOU -- DID YOU NOTICE NOT ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT GOT, LIKE, CITED TEN TIMES WERE HERE? >>KEVIN WHITE: I BEG TO DIFFER. YES, THEY WERE. A COUPLE OF THE ONES WHO WERE COMPLAINING WITH MS. STOLLER IN MY OFFICE, YES, THERE WERE A COUPLE. THEY WERE HERE, AND THEY WERE HERE IN SUPPORT OF THE PROGRAM AS WELL. MS. STOLLER, YOU SAW THEM. YES, THERE WERE. >>JIM NORMAN: HISTORICALLY THEY'RE NOT COMING IN HERE. THE ONES THAT ARE REALLY BAD, THOUGH, THEY DON'T WANT -- >>KEVIN WHITE: NOT REALLY BAD, JUST GOT COMPLAINTS. >>JIM NORMAN: THEY DON'T WANT THIS PROGRAM. THAT'S WHAT WAS UNIQUE ABOUT LAST NIGHT TO ME, THE ONES THAT WOULDN'T BE LICENSED ANYMORE THAT ARE OFFERING AN ENVIRONMENT THAT'S NOT -- THEY WANT TO JUST CONTINUE ON, AND THAT'S -- THAT WAS UNIQUE TO ME. THE ONES THAT WERE REALLY DOING A TREMENDOUS JOB WERE HERE LAST NIGHT, AND THAT WAS UNIQUE. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: MR. PAPIN -- >>TOM PAPIN: YES, MA'AM. >>ROSE FERLITA: -- I HAVE TO TELL YOU, SIR, THAT YOU'RE SMARTER THAN I THOUGHT YOU WERE. YOU BROUGHT THE BRAINS WITH YOU SO YOU COULD TRY TO DISARM US, AND BECAUSE OF THAT, REALLY, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. I'VE BEEN OUT THERE TO SEE WHAT YOU GUYS DO. AS WE GO ALONG WITH THE BUDGET, I MIGHT HAVE SOME QUESTIONS, BUT FOR RIGHT NOW, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. THANK YOU. >>TOM PAPIN: THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: THANKS FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP, MR. PAPIN. APPRECIATE IT. >>TOM PAPIN: OKAY. THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: MS. BEAN. >>PAT BEAN: YES. THAT'S WONDERFUL. YOU GUYS SKATED. [LAUGHTER] >>TOM PAPIN: [INAUDIBLE] STRICT ORDERS, AND WE'RE GOING TO COME BACK TO A [INAUDIBLE] >>PAT BEAN: I CAN COUNT ON THOSE TWO TO DO THAT, TOO, LET ME ASSURE YOU. THE NEXT ITEM THAT'S ON YOUR AGENDA IS THE LAW LIBRARY, AND WE HAVE THE LAW LIBRARIAN OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY COMING TO THE FLOOR -- PODIUM. >> HI. I'M NORMA WISE, THE DIRECTOR OF THE LAW LIBRARY. I'M NOT SURE IF YOU WANT ME TO MAKE A STATEMENT OR WHETHER -- >>PAT BEAN: LET'S SEE IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS FOR HER. >>KEN HAGAN: ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? COMMISSIONER FERLITA. >>ROSE FERLITA: I -- I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOUR PRESENTATION, IF, IN FACT, YOU'RE PREPARED TO GIVE US ONE. I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION THAT I WANT MR. JOHNSON TO VERIFY FOR ME -- TO DISPUTE, VERIFY, WHATEVER. ERIC, I WAS TOLD BY A CONSTITUENT EARLIER TODAY THAT IF WE TOOK AWAY THE FUNDING FOR THE LAW LIBRARY, THAT -- THAT FUNDING ACTUALLY DOES NOT COME BACK TO THE COUNTY, IT GOES BACK TO THE STATE. IS THAT RIGHT? >>ERIC JOHNSON: [INAUDIBLE] >>ROSE FERLITA: SO WHAT WOULD BE THE BENEFIT OF DOING ANYTHING ALONG THAT LINES? AND I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS, I'M SORRY. IT WAS JUST TOLD TO ME. DID YOU HEAR MY QUESTION? I'LL REPEAT IT AGAIN. >>ERIC JOHNSON: YES, I DID. I NEED TO CHECK ON THAT, COMMISSIONER. >>ROSE FERLITA: BECAUSE, I MEAN, THAT MAKES THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION -- >> I HAVE THE STATUTES HERE. >>KEN HAGAN: GOOD AFTERNOON, TOM. >>TOM FESLER: HI, COMMISSIONER. MY NAME IS TOM FESLER FROM THE MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET DEPARTMENT. THERE IS NO COUNTY TAX FUNDING THAT GOES TO SUPPORT THE LAW LIBRARY. THAT IS A FEE THAT IS SPLIT BETWEEN ACTUALLY FOUR DIFFERENT AREAS, AND SO THE LAW LIBRARY HAS A BUDGET THAT LIVES WITHIN THAT -- THAT REVENUE, SO THERE ARE NO IMPLICATIONS TO THE TWO TAX FUNDS. >>ROSE FERLITA: SO, THEN, THE ANSWER IS THAT THERE'S NO BENEFIT TO THE COUNTY IF WE REDUCED THIS AT ALL? >>TOM FESLER: THERE'S NO BENEFIT. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: THANK YOU, TOM. >>ROSE FERLITA: AND TOM, I MAY HAVE FURTHER QUESTIONS. LIKE I SAID, I WAS HANDED THAT COMMENT AS I WALKED UP HERE, AND SO IF I NEED MORE ELABORATION, THEN FINE. THANKS. >>PAT BEAN: YOU'RE HOME FREE. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION FOR HER? >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: YEAH, AND I BROUGHT THIS UP AS ONE FOR CONSIDERATION BECAUSE I JUST HAD QUESTIONS AS TO -- ON THE STAFFING. IS THIS BEING STAFFED THROUGH COUNTY FUNDS? BECAUSE I UNDERSTOOD WHERE THE SOURCE OF FUNDS WAS, BUT IF IT'S NOT -- >> NO, SIR. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: -- I JUST WANTED CLARIFICATION ON THAT. >> NO, SIR, IT'S NOT. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: GOOD. >>ROSE FERLITA: THAT BASICALLY, MR. HIGGINBOTHAM, WAS MY POINT. I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE WERE GOING TO GO ON THIS DISCUSSION, BUT I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS GOING TO BENEFIT US ON THIS. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: RIGHT. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. >>KEN HAGAN: THANK YOU, MA'AM. >>PAT BEAN: THE NEXT ITEM WOULD THE LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION. CANDACE HUNDLEY IS COMING FORWARD. >>CANDACE HUNDLEY: GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS CANDACE HUNDLEY. I'M THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF THE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY LEGISLATIVE DELEGATION. THE MEMBERS OF THE DELEGATION SEND THEIR GREETINGS AND THEIR APPRECIATION FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO APPEAR AND ANSWER QUESTIONS. >>KEN HAGAN: I JUST WANT TO SAY I'VE RECEIVED A LETTER FROM -- WILL WEATHERFORD INDICATED THAT THEY'VE OFFERED TO RETURN $13,750 FROM THE FUNDING FOR THIS CURRENT FISCAL YEAR, SO I RECEIVED THIS LETTER TODAY. I THINK THAT'S A -- >> [INAUDIBLE] >>JIM NORMAN: ARE THEY IN OUR BUDGET FOR THIS YEAR AND NEXT YEAR? DO YOU HAVE -- >>PAT BEAN: YES. >>JIM NORMAN: I MEAN, YOU HAVEN'T CUT THEM TO A POINT OF NONOPERATION, I GUESS I'M -- >>PAT BEAN: WE TOOK THE DIRECTION FROM THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DELEGATION. >>JIM NORMAN: WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK TO THAT? >>PAT BEAN: WE RECEIVED A LETTER FROM HIM DEFINING THAT HE WOULD REDUCE THE OFFICE TO ONE STAFFPERSON. >>JIM NORMAN: YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING TO THAT? >> NO, THAT'S CORRECT. WE WERE ASKING FOR FUNDING THROUGH THE END OF THE YEAR -- THROUGH OF THE END OF THE CALENDAR YEAR FOR BOTH POSITIONS. AT THE END OF THE CALENDAR YEAR THIS YEAR, WE WOULD COMBINE THAT -- THOSE TWO POSITIONS INTO ONE AND CREATE A NEW POSITION, AND THEN THAT ONE PERSON WOULD OPERATE THE OFFICE FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS. THE FIRST YEAR -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU -- YOU HAVE THE FIGURES IN FRONT OF YOU OF HOW MUCH THE REDUCTION IS FOR THE FIRST YEAR, AND THEN IT'S, OF COURSE, A MORE ENORMOUS DIFFERENCE THE SECOND YEAR. >>JIM NORMAN: SO YOU'RE SUPPORTIVE OF WHERE WE ARE AS FAR AS -- >>PAT BEAN: ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY. AND I HAVE THE LETTER HERE FROM THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DELEGATION IN WHICH HE SAYS, WE ARE PROPOSING TO REDUCE STAFF IN THE DELEGATION OFFICE AS OF JANUARY 1st, 2010, WITH A SINGLE PERSON SERVING AS DELEGATION COORDINATOR. >>JIM NORMAN: BUT I MEAN, FROM OCTOBER 1 THROUGH 1/1, DO WE HAVE ENOUGH -- IT'S STILL TWO PEOPLE. DO WE -- DO WE STILL HAVE -- FROM OCTOBER 1 -- SO YOU HAVE ENOUGH FUNDING FROM -- >>PAT BEAN: WE FOLLOWED HIS DIRECTION. >>JIM NORMAN: OKAY. BUT I'M SAYING IT COMBINES ON 1/1. >>PAT BEAN: YES. >>JIM NORMAN: I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE -- >>ERIC JOHNSON: YES. >>PAT BEAN: YES. >>JIM NORMAN: ALL RIGHT. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: YEAH, I'M THE ONE THAT BROUGHT THIS UP, AND I'VE SPOKEN TO THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DELEGATION, AND THE LETTER THAT I RECEIVED TODAY, ACCORDING TO OUR DISCUSSION, DOESN'T QUITE REPRESENT HIS FEELING AND OPINION ON THIS, AND HE IS MORE THAN WILLING TO WORK WITH US IN OTHER WAYS TO FIND -- TO REDUCE THE COST ON THIS DEPARTMENT. HE SAID THAT THE DELEGATION WOULD BE WILLING -- UPON YOUR RETIREMENT -- I THINK YOU RETIRE THIS YEAR. I THINK THAT'S WHY WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE END OF THE YEAR, TO NOT HAVE STAFF AT ALL AND THAT THERE BE A -- >>PAT BEAN: [INAUDIBLE] >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: BECAUSE I -- AND I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THIS LETTER. >>PAT BEAN: THIS LETTER CAME FEBRUARY 26th. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: OKAY. WAS IT IN OUR BACKUP AND I JUST DIDN'T SEE IT? >>PAT BEAN: I DOUBT THAT IT WAS. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: OKAY. THEN THE BOARD HASN'T HAD THE BENEFIT OF THAT ONE? >> IT WAS SENT TO THE BOARD INITIALLY. >>PAT BEAN: IT WAS SENT TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE BOARD BACK IN FEBRUARY. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: ANYWAY, BASED ON THE DISCUSSION THAT I HAD WITH THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DELEGATION TODAY, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE OPEN TO IF WE NEED FURTHER CUTS AND -- TO SHARE AN ASSISTANT WITH -- YOU KNOW, YOU COME WITH A COMMON -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY COMMON CLERK BUT A COMMON ASSISTANT SHARED WITHIN OTHER DEPARTMENTS. DOES THIS BUDGET THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING TO CONTINUE INCLUDE KEEPING UP THE OFFICE SUITE THAT WE HAVE NOW OR DO WE CLOSE THAT OFFICE DOWN? >>PAT BEAN: WELL, WE ACTED UPON THIS LETTER. I'VE NOT SEEN ANY OTHER LETTER FROM HIM, AND WHAT HE HAD SUGGESTED AT THAT TIME WAS TO HAVE A POSITION THAT WOULD ASSUME THE RESPONSIBILITIES THAT THE TWO POSITIONS HAVE BEEN CARRYING OUT BEFORE, AND YES, WE WERE GOING TO REDUCE THE SIZE. IT'S IN THIS BUILDING, BUT WE FIGURED THAT AS WE START MOVING OTHER FOLKS INTO THIS BUILDING OUT OF LEASED SPACE, WE WOULD PROBABLY NEED TO TAKE SOME OF THAT SPACE, SO WE WERE PLANNING TO DO THAT. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE FLAG THIS FOR FURTHER CUTS BASED ON THE WILLINGNESS OF THE DELEGATION TO WORK WITH US AND THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF OUR BUDGET CONSTRAINTS, AND THEY CAN -- WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY, AS I'VE -- AS I'VE TALKED WITH MANY OF THESE FOLKS THROUGH THE YEARS AND IN PARTICULAR TODAY, TO HELP US WITH FUNDING HERE TO -- TO EXTEND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO THE CHILDREN'S PROGRAMS, OTHER AREAS WE'RE GOING TO NEED IN THE BUDGET, SO I'M GOING TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT THIS BE FLAGGED FOR FURTHER CUTS. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: SECOND THAT. I JUST HAVE A QUICK QUESTION. HOW MANY OTHER COUNTIES IN THE STATE HAVE A DELEGATION OFFICE THAT YOU KNOW OF? >> I BELIEVE THERE ARE SIX COUNTIES THAT HAVE A DELEGATION OFFICE. ALL THE MAJOR URBAN COUNTIES HAVE THEM. >>KEVIN WHITE: OKAY. I WASN'T -- DO YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE RIGHT OFFHAND. >> MIAMI-DADE, BROWARD, PALM BEACH, ORANGE, DUVAL, AND I'M MISSING ONE. >>JIM NORMAN: PINELLAS. >>PAT BEAN: MAYBE WE'RE THE SIXTH, HILLSBOROUGH. >> PARDON? >>JIM NORMAN: PINELLAS. >> PINELLAS DOES NOT HAVE ONE. >>KEVIN WHITE: I BELIEVE SOME -- I'M NOT SURE. I WAS TRYING TO LOOK UP SOME OF THE INFORMATION ON THAT. I BELIEVE SOME OF THOSE COUNTIES HAVE EVEN DROPPED THEIR DELEGATION OFFICES. >> PINELLAS COUNTY DID. MIAMI-DADE DROPPED THEIRS FOR TWO YEARS, AND THEY BROUGHT IT BACK THIS LAST SESSION. >>KEVIN WHITE: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. APPRECIATE IT. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: I GUESS I WOULD WANT FURTHER FEEDBACK BECAUSE I GUESS I'M GETTING OPPOSITE CONVERSATIONS, I GUESS. THEY -- WHAT I HEARD WAS THEY WERE WILLING TO CONSOLIDATE, CUT IT 50%, GO INTO ONE PERSON. THEY FEEL THAT CONNECTION TO HILLSBOROUGH AND THE DIALOGUE THAT WE HAVE THROUGH I GUESS LEGISLATIVE ACTS THAT'S GOING TO OCCUR GREATLY IMPACTS US, SO ARE YOU -- I GUESS YOU HAVE A LOT MORE CONTACT THAN I DO OR ANY OF US DO. WHAT IS YOUR INITIAL REACTION, AND WOULD YOU GET US FURTHER DIALOGUE AS WE -- >> YOU MEAN ABOUT HOW THE DELEGATION FEELS ABOUT THE OFFICE? >>JIM NORMAN: AND MOVING FORWARD AND -- >> YES. TO MY KNOWLEDGE WHEN I WALKED IN HERE TODAY WAS THAT WE WERE SUBMITTING -- THAT WE HAD SUBMITTED THE BUDGET TO REDUCE THE OFFICE IN SIZE TO ONE PERSON AT THE END OF THIS CALENDAR YEAR AND TO CONTINUE FORWARD IN THAT MANNER. >>JIM NORMAN: AND THAT'S THE SUPPORT OF YOUR DELEGATION? >> THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING, BUT COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM SAID HE HAS SPOKEN -- >>JIM NORMAN: I THINK YOU NEED TO GIVE US FURTHER INFORMATION. >> BELIEVE ME, I INTEND TO CALL MY CHAIRMAN RIGHT AWAY. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: RIGHT. AND WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME A MEMBER OF THE DELEGATION CAME TO OUR OFFICE? >> I DON'T KNOW. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME ANYONE INVITED THEM? I DON'T KNOW. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: IT'S THEIR OFFICE. WE'RE -- I MEAN -- >> OH, YOU MEAN TO MY OFFICE? >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: TO OUR DELEGATION OFFICE AND ACTUALLY USED -- PHYSICALLY -- >> I GO TO THEM. THEY HAVE DELEGATION MEETINGS IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, BUT WE -- OF COURSE, WE MANAGE AND STAFF AND THAT KIND OF THING. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: RIGHT. >> BUT I GO TO THEM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: AND IF WE -- THAT'S AGAIN WHERE I'M CONCERNED, IF WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, OFFICE OR SUITES OR WHATEVER IT IS, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED TO HAVE AS ELABORATE A SETUP IF IT'S SOMEONE WHO'S OUT IN THE FIELD THAT WE'VE GOT TO HAVE THIS. RIGHT NOW I LOOK AT IT AS A -- AS A NICE THING WHEN THERE WAS PLENTY OF MONEY, AND I, AGAIN, WILL STAND BY MY MOTION -- I KNOW THERE WAS A SECOND -- TO EXAMINE THIS FOR FURTHER CUTS. >> COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM, I WOULD INVITE YOU TO COME TO THE DELEGATION OFFICE. WE DO NOT HAVE A SUITE OF OFFICES. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: WELL, FOR WHATEVER -- >> WE HAVE A CUBBYHOLE AND A POD. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: GOOD. THAT'S GOOD. >>JIM NORMAN: AS IT'S STATED I WON'T SUPPORT IT. I -- I WOULD -- >>MARK SHARPE: WE JUST FLAGGED IT. WE'RE NOT GOING TO VOTE. >>JIM NORMAN: NO, NO, HE SAID FOR FURTHER CUTS. SO WHAT I WOULD DO IS SUPPORT FURTHER INFORMATION THAT WOULD COME BACK FROM THE CHAIR OF THE DELEGATION, AND WE COULD MAKE -- HAVE A FURTHER REVIEW. THAT'S WHAT I SUPPORT. IF YOU KEEP YOUR MOTION LIKE IT IS, IT'S UP TO YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: CLARIFY, WHY IS THERE A MOTION? >>MARK SHARPE: HE WAS FLAGGING. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: I'M SORRY, IT SHOULDN'T BE A MOTION. I WANT THIS FLAGGED FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION, CLARIFICATION - - >>JIM NORMAN: THAT'S FAIR. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: -- AND TO FACE CUTS. >>JIM NORMAN: WHAT? >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: AND TO FACE CUTS. >>ROSE FERLITA: FACE CUTS, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: WE ALWAYS ASK ABOUT FLAGGED ITEMS TO ADD THINGS BACK INTO THE BUDGET. I DON'T KNOW WHY IT'S SO NOVEL TO LOOK AT SOMETHING. AND I DON'T MEAN TO GET CONTENTIOUS, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHY IT'S SO NOVEL TO SAY HERE'S SOMETHING LET'S LOOK AT TO CUT ADDITIONALLY TO HELP FUND THE ITEMS THAT WE FLAGGED THE OTHER NIGHT, WHICH TOTAL ABOUT $9 MILLION ROUGHLY. >>JIM NORMAN: COMMISSIONER, WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS THEY'VE CUT 50%. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: THEY'VE CUT 24%. >>JIM NORMAN: WELL, THEY'VE CONSOLIDATED THEIR STAFF -- THEY'VE CUT 50% OF THEIR STAFF IF IT'S GOING FROM TWO TO ONE, AND I'M HEARING FROM THE CHAIR THAT -- I GUESS WE'RE GETTING DIFFERENT INFORMATION. I GUESS BEFORE I SEND THAT SIGNAL, I WOULD LIKE SOME INFORMATION BACK JUST -- IF WE SEND A SIGNAL, HEY, LOOK -- >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: LET'S SEND A SIGNAL THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT CUTTING THEM MORE. >>JIM NORMAN: OKAY. DO WHAT YOU WANT. IS THAT YOUR MOTION? I'LL VOTE NO. >> I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT WHEN WE SAY WE CUT HALF, OUR BUDGET STILL LOOKS INFLATED BEYOND HALF THIS FISCAL YEAR, ONE BECAUSE OF MY SALARY AND TWO BECAUSE THE COUNTY IS GOING TO OWE ME A SIGNIFICANT PAYOUT FOR UNUSED SICK LEAVE OVER THE 35 YEARS I'VE BEEN HERE. AS SOON AS THAT'S PAID OUT, THAT GOES AWAY. IF YOU WILL LOOK AT OUR 2011 BUDGET, IT GOES DOWN TO I THINK IT'S $89,000. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. COMMISSIONER FERLITA, THEN WE'LL MOVE TO THE NEXT ITEM. >> [INAUDIBLE] $237,000. >>ROSE FERLITA: THANK YOU. MR. CHAIRMAN, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK WE HAVE SOME MISCOMMUNICATION HERE. YOU'RE SAYING ONE THING, HE'S SAYING ONE THING AS TODAY. MR. NORMAN WANTS TO KNOW THE FACTS BEFORE WE DETERMINE WHAT WE'RE DOING. I THOUGHT FIRST THE MOTION WAS TO LOOK AT IT, AND I DON'T THINK WE NEED A MOTION, AS CUTS, AND I AM IN FAVOR OF WHAT MR. NORMAN SEEMS TO BE LEANING TO. WE REALLY NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE POSITION IS BEFORE WE CAN DETERMINE WHAT, IF ANYTHING, WE WANT TO DO WITH THIS, SO -- >>KEN HAGAN: YEAH. >>ROSE FERLITA: IF THAT'S -- EXCUSE ME. I STILL HAVE THE FLOOR. IF, IN FACT, WHAT WE'RE ASKING IS TO GET A BETTER CLARIFICATION OF WHERE THEY THINK THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY THINK THEY CAN OFFER, CANDACE, TO MAYBE PERHAPS STREAMLINE AND NOT AUTOMATICALLY ELIMINATE THE OFFICE, THAT'S FINE, BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD FOR SURE WHAT THEY WANT TO DO AND WHAT WE CAN DO TO COME TO SOME SORT OF AN AGREEMENT. >> ABSOLUTELY. I WILL TALK TO MY CHAIRMAN. >>ROSE FERLITA: IF RESEARCHING INFORMATION IS WHAT WE'RE DOING, I THINK THAT'S FINE. ANYTHING SHORT OF THAT, I DON'T HAVE ANY CLARIFICATION ENOUGH TO MAKE A DETERMINATION. >> WELL, AS I SAID, WHEN WE CAME IN HERE -- WHEN I CAME TODAY, IT WAS WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT WE WERE GOING FORWARD WITH THE REQUEST THAT WE HAD MADE AND WHICH PAT PUT INTO THE BUDGET AS REQUESTED. >>ROSE FERLITA: AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, THE MESSAGE THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO TAKE BACK IS WE'RE LOOKING AT IT BECAUSE THEY LOOKED LIKE THERE WERE CONFLICTING MESSAGE FROM -- >> MY UNDERSTANDING IS HE WOULD CONSIDER NOT STAFFING THE OFFICE AT ALL. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. >>KEN HAGAN: WELL, IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER AT THIS POINT. ALL WE'RE DOING -- >>ROSE FERLITA: WE'RE NOT MAKING A MOTION TO SUPPORT IT. >>KEN HAGAN: WE'RE MOVING TO THE NEXT ITEM. HE'S FLAGGING THE ITEM FOR CONSIDERATION TO POTENTIALLY CUT IT. HE GOT A SECOND. THAT MAY COME BACK, IT MAY NOT. THAT'S ALL WE'RE DOING TODAY, TO GET MORE INFORMATION. >> [INDISCERNIBLE CROSS TALK] >>KEN HAGAN: NOBODY FREAK OUT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO SUPPORT EITHER, BUT HE HAS THE RIGHT TO FLAG IT. >> ABSOLUTELY. >>KEN HAGAN: HE RECEIVED A SECOND, AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO THE NEXT ITEM. OKAY. THANK YOU, MS. HUNDLEY. NEXT ITEM, PLEASE. >> THERE'S NO VOTE. >>ROSE FERLITA: MR. CHAIRMAN, BEFORE PAT GETS TO THAT ONE, I WONDER IF I CAN ASK THAT ADMINISTRATION DO SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S NOT ON THIS AGENDA. >>KEN HAGAN: YES. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. THANKS. ERIC, FIRST OF ALL, I ASKED YOU TO GIVE ME SOME DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS AND SOME DIFFERENT DETAIL, AND I THINK YOU GAVE IT TO ALL OF US, AS YOU SHOULD. IT WAS A REQUEST LAST TIME ON THE LINE ITEMS. REMEMBER? >>ERIC JOHNSON: YES, MA'AM. >>ROSE FERLITA: AND YOU DELIVERED THAT, AND I APPRECIATE IT, AND I THINK ALL MY COLLEAGUES HAVE THAT, AND THAT JUST REALLY WAS NOT FOR YOU TO DO MORE WORK BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE INUNDATED WITH STUFF NOW, SO LET ME CAPITALIZE ON THE BENEFIT OF YOU HAVING DONE THAT. I'D LIKE TO SEND THIS BACK TO YOU AND I'D LIKE TO PERHAPS MAYBE -- FOR LACK OF A BETTER WAY TO SAY THIS, I'D LIKE TO CHALLENGE YOU TO GO BACK TO THESE VERY SAME LINE ITEMS AND SEE WHERE WE CAN DO SOME ADDITIONAL CUTTING TO SAVE SOME JOBS, SO IF I'M SAYING THAT, I'M TALKING ABOUT OPERATING EXPENSES ON EACH OF THESE LINE ITEMS, LIKE CONTRACT SERVICES, OFFICE SUPPLY ALLOWANCES, PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, OPERATIONAL EXPENSES IN ANY OF THE LINE ITEMS THAT IT APPEARS AND SEE WHERE IF THERE'S AN INCREASE, IT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH HISTORICAL SPENDING TRENDS. I MEAN, IT'S JUST ANOTHER LOOK, AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO BETWEEN NOW AND SEPTEMBER, ANOTHER LOOK. SO, SO AS NOT TO FOCUS ON EMPLOYEE ELIMINATION, FOCUS ON THESE LINE ITEMS THAT WON'T AFFECT THAT, AND IF THERE'S SOME THAT AS YOU LOOK AT IT AGAIN, THEY ARE PERCEIVED -- AT LEAST EVEN PERCEIVED OVERBUDGETED ITEMS, THEN LET'S LOOK AT IT AND SEE IF PERHAPS WE CAN REDUCE IT, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RATIONALE WAS FOR GOING WITH BIG INCREASES IN SOME CASES OR NOT, BUT MAYBE IT WAS JUST SOMEPLACE TO START, SOMEPLACE TO DUMP SOME OF THOSE DOLLARS SO THAT WE WOULD START OUR EFFORTS IN BALANCING THE BUDGET, SO LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT, AND THEN SECONDLY -- LIKE SAY ON RENTAL SPACE, I'M NOT SURE WHY SOME OF THESE HAVE INCREASES IN RENTAL SPACE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT COLLAPSING SOME LEASING, AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT WHAT YOU DID OR DIDN'T DO IS NOT JUSTIFIED, IT'S JUST THAT I WANT TO UNDERSTAND BETTER WHAT YOU DID SO THAT IF THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES -- AND IT MIGHT SEEM LIKE A LITTLE BIT, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT WHOLE LIST OF LINE ITEMS FROM EACH DEPARTMENT, 100,000 HERE, 20,000 HERE, 10,000 HERE, IT MIGHT MAKE A LITTLE BIT OF DIFFERENCE WHERE WE FOCUS ON THINGS WE REALLY DON'T NEED. I NOTICED SOMEPLACE ELSE THAT THERE WERE SOME OPPORTUNITIES HERE, MORE SO THAN I WOULD LIKE TO THINK, OF SOME OVERTIME HOURS, AND I DON'T WANT THAT TO BECOME SOME SORT OF AN ASSUMED OR PERCEIVED ENTITLEMENT. WE ALL HAVE TO DO MORE -- MORE THAN WE'VE DONE BEFORE IN OUR REGULAR TIME HOURS, SO LET'S LOOK AT THAT TOO. JUST GIVE ME A REPORT BACK ON ALL THAT. >>ERIC JOHNSON: SURE. >>ROSE FERLITA: AND THAT'S TOO MUCH FOR YOU TO RESPOND TO NOW, BUT ANYTIME THAT YOU WANT TO GET TOGETHER, AND THEN WE CAN BRING IT BACK TO THE BOARD. AND ONE LAST THING THAT I THOUGHT WE MIGHT TRY TO DO IS IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT CONSOLIDATING ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT PERSONNEL BY MAYBE RELOCATING DEPARTMENTS THAT PRETTY MUCH SHARE AREAS NOW LIKE AGING AND HSS. JUST THAT TYPE OF THING, JUST GIVE IT ANOTHER LOOK. I'M NOT CRITICIZING OR I'M NOT SUGGESTING AT THIS POINT, BUT THAT WAS THE REASON I ASKED YOU TO PRINT THOSE OUT, AND THE VOLUMINOUS ONES THAT YOU WERE GOING TO DO, REALLY WE DIDN'T NEED THAT. THIS SERVES MY PURPOSE OF REALLY GETTING INTO THE NITTY- GRITTY ON LINE ITEMS, SO I'D APPRECIATE THAT. >>ERIC JOHNSON: I'D BE PLEASED TO, AND THAT WOULD BE A GOOD ONE TO BRING BACK AT THE FIRST BOARD WORKSHOP AFTER YOUR BREAK BECAUSE THAT GIVES US SOME GOOD TIME TO GO THROUGH AND, AS YOU INDICATED, SCREEN THEM ONE MORE TIME TO SEE WHERE THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES. >>ROSE FERLITA: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. JOHNSON. >>KEN HAGAN: NEXT ITEM. >>PAT BEAN: THE NEXT DEPARTMENT THAT WE WOULD TALK ABOUT IS CIVIL SERVICE. CIVIL SERVICE, AS YOU KNOW, IS CREATED BY STATE LAW, AND IN FACT, IN THAT LAW IT DOES SPECIFY HOW THEY ARE TO BE FUNDED. GENE GARDNER IS HERE FROM THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD. >> MR. CHAIR, BOARD MEMBERS, GENE GARDNER, DIRECTOR, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY CIVIL SERVICE BOARD. I HAVE WITH ME BUT WHO HAD TO TAKE A PHONE CALL DANE PETERSEN. I ALSO HAD VICE CHAIR OF THE BOARD, DAVID AGLIANO WHO LEFT. I THINK HE'S ON A JOB INTERVIEW OR -- AT THE TIME. >>KEVIN WHITE: NO, HE'S ON THE WAY TO COSTA RICA. >> OR COUNTING HIS MONEY. THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD, AS MS. BEAN INDICATED, IS ESTABLISHED BY SPECIAL ACT CHAPTER 2000-445 WITH A STATED PURPOSE OF ADMINISTERING A MERIT PERSONNEL SYSTEM FOR ALL COUNTY EMPLOYEES. IT'S BEEN A PART OF GOVERNMENT FOR MANY YEARS. IT HAS A BOARD APPOINTED BY THE GOVERNOR, A SEVEN-MEMBER BOARD CHAIRED BY VICTORIA BUTLER, AND AS I SAID, THE VICE CHAIR IS DAVID AGLIANO. INCLUDED IN THIS ARE 23 APPOINTING AUTHORITIES. YOU HAVE -- WE DON'T JUST DO WORK FOR THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. WE HAVE 23 DIFFERENT APPOINTING AUTHORITIES. THAT'S ALL OF THE CONSTITUTIONALS, COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, AVIATION AUTHORITY, PORT AUTHORITY, AND 15 MORE. THERE ARE 10,000 -- OVER 10,000 POSITIONS. THE MOST RECENT ROUND OF CUTS IS GOING TO BRING THAT DOWN TO VERY CLOSE TO 10,000 EMPLOYEES IN THE SYSTEM. IF THERE'S -- THOSE 10,000 POSITIONS ARE ESTABLISHED BY THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD. THEY ARE CLASSIFIED AND PUT INTO PROPER PAY GRADES BY THE CIVIL SERVICE BOARD. WHEN IT COMES TIME TO RECRUIT, THE BOARD DOES RECRUITMENT FOR ALL 23 AGENCIES, ALL 10,000 POSITIONS, PROVIDING AN ELIGIBLE LIST THAT -- BY REVIEWING APPLICANTS TO DETERMINE THEIR QUALIFICATION, AND THEN WE SEND THAT LIST TO THE APPOINTING AUTHORITIES FOR THEIR DECISION. THEY MUST SELECT SOMEONE FROM THAT LIST IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAW. OTHER THINGS THAT I THINK ARE PERTINENT, AS I SAID, WE CLASSIFY THOSE 10,000 POSITIONS AND DETERMINE THE CLASS; THEREFORE THE PAY GRADE. THAT IS TO ENSURE THAT A CLERK AT THE AVIATION AUTHORITY AND A CLERK AT EPC DON'T HAVE $5,000 DIFFERENCE IN THEIR STARTING SALARY. IT'S THE STANDARDIZATION OF WAGES, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE MAJOR ROLES THAT WE PLAY IN ESTABLISHING THE PAY PLAN. THE BOARD, AS I MENTIONED, DOES RECRUIT FOR ALL VACANCIES. THAT IS EFFICIENCY, BOARD, BY ANY MAN'S STANDARDS. WE'RE RECRUITING FOR EVERY VACANCY AMONG 23 DIFFERENT APPOINTING AUTHORITIES CLASSIFIED EMPLOYEES. WE ARE, IN OUR OPINION, FAR, FAR AHEAD OF OUR TIME IN EFFICIENCIES. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE DO, WE DO IT FOR EVERY AGENCY, WE BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE, AND WITH THAT, WITHOUT GOING ANY FURTHER, I'LL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS MORE OF A QUESTION FOR YOU OR FOR MR. JOHNSON OR MS. BEAN, BUT YOU'RE ONE OF THE FEW BOARDS, PROGRAMS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, THAT ACTUALLY ARE GETTING AN INCREASE FROM FISCAL YEAR '09 TO '10. I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT THE RATIONALE OR WHY -- IF THERE'S ANY PARTICULAR -- ARE THERE STATE MANDATES THAT SAY THAT THEY HAVE TO GET AN INCREASE? I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT. >>ERIC JOHNSON: YES, COMMISSIONER. THEIR APPROPRIATION IS BASED ON A STATUTORY REQUIREMENT. I SHOULD POINT OUT I'M SEEING IF I CAN GET THE INFORMATION QUICKLY. I DIDN'T THINK TO BRING IT WITH ME. BECAUSE OF THOSE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT MR. GARDNER MENTIONED, WE DO ACTUALLY BILL HIS OTHER CLIENTS FOR A PROPORTIONATE SHARE OF HIS BUDGET. >> IF I COULD, IT WILL GO UP ABOUT $100,000 FROM THIS YEAR. WE LOOKED -- WE'RE POSITIVE THAT BECAUSE OF THE LAYOFFS, THAT'S GOING TO AFFECT US BY ABOUT $500,000, AND ULTIMATELY, WHEN YOU RESOLVE THE FUNDING FORMULA THAT WE HAVE -- AND THAT'S 65/100 OF 1% OF THE PREVIOUS YEAR'S CLASSIFIED PAYROLL, SO IT COMES INTO PLAY A YEAR LATER, THAT OUR STIPULATED MINIMUM FUNDING WILL GO DOWN AS COUNTY WAGES GO DOWN, BUT LET ME POINT OUT ONE THING. IN THE PAST YEARS WE'VE RETURNED MONEY FROM THAT -- THAT GUARANTEED FUNDING. WE RETURNED OVER 500,000 LAST YEAR. PROBABLY HIT THE SAME NUMBER THIS YEAR, AND IT'S MULTI- HUNDRED THOUSANDS IN MOST YEARS THAT WE RETURN, SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE SPEND THAT MONEY, BUT WE HAVE IT THERE GUARANTEED IN THE EVENT WE NEED IT, BECAUSE AS I SAID, WE SERVE 23 DIFFERENT APPOINTING AUTHORITIES, NOT JUST THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. >>KEVIN BECKNER: SO -- AND I DON'T MEAN TO PICK ON YOUR DEPARTMENT. IT'S JUST OBVIOUSLY WHEN WE'RE IN A TIME WHERE WE'RE CUTTING EVERYWHERE ELSE, THE QUESTION WILL BE RAISED, WELL, WHY ARE THEY GETTING AN INCREASE? IS THERE ANY PART OF THE BUDGET THAT CAN BE REEXAMINED OR LOOKED AT THAT COULD CREATE MORE EFFICIENCIES, OR ARE WE PRETTY LOCKED BY THESE STATE MANDATES? >>ERIC JOHNSON: I THINK, COMMISSIONERS, AS GENE JUST INDICATED, I THINK THE MOST RECENT YEAR THEY GAVE US BACK ABOUT A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS UNSPENT, SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE THE RELATIONSHIP WE HAVE WITH CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS THAT MANAGE THEIR OWN ACCOUNTING SYSTEMS. WE APPROPRIATE FUNDS TO THEM, IT'S TRANSFERRED ON A MONTHLY BASIS, AT YEAR-END THEY RETURN A PORTION OF THE UNSPENT -- THEY RETURN ALL OF THE UNSPENT FUNDS AT YEAR-END, SO AS GENE HAS INDICATED, HE GETS AN APPROPRIATION. MY ESTIMATE WOULD BE THAT OUR FISCAL '11 BUDGET FOR CIVIL SERVICE IS OVERSTATED BECAUSE WHEN THE DUST SETTLES, THERE WILL BE A CALCULATION BASED ON ALL OF THE ORGANIZATIONS FOR WHICH CIVIL SERVICE PERFORMS SERVICES, AND SO AT THAT POINT WE'LL BE ABLE TO RECALCULATE WHAT OUR BUDGET WILL ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE FOR CIVIL SERVICE IN FISCAL '09. IT SHOULD BE LESS. AS GENE'S INDICATED, THEY'RE NOT SPENDING ALL THE MONEY THEY GET. IF THEIR BUDGET GOES DOWN IN FISCAL '11, WE MAY ACTUALLY HAVE LESS RETURNED, BUT AS I INDICATED -- AND I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT HAVING THE NUMBER WITH ME, BUT WE'LL FOLLOW UP AND SEND THAT TO THE BOARD. MY OFFICE BILLS EACH OF GENE'S OTHER CLIENTS THAT HAVE DIDN'T FUNDING SOURCES, SO EXAMPLE, IF THE PORT AUTHORITY USES GENE'S SERVICES, I'M SENDING A BILL EVERY YEAR TO THEM FOR THEIR SHARE OF WHAT WE GIVE GENE SO THAT THEY PAY THEIR PROPORTIONATE SHARE, SO WE APPROPRIATE THE FUNDS, WE GET SOME OF THAT BACK AS A REVENUE, WE GET SOME OF IT BACK AT YEAR-END IN TERMS OF UNSPENT DOLLARS. >>KEVIN BECKNER: ARE ANY OF THE EXPECTED RETURNS FOR -- ALREADY BUILT INTO THE BUDGET, OR IS THAT -- >>ERIC JOHNSON: NOT AT THIS POINT BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT -- THAT ASSURANCE. IN THE CASE OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS, THEY HE ACTUALLY GIVE US A REVENUE ESTIMATE AT THE TIME THAT THEY GIVE US THEIR BUDGET TO TELL US HOW MUCH OF THE BUDGET WE'RE GOING TO GIVE THEM NEXT YEAR THEY ANTICIPATE RETURNING AT YEAR-END, AND JUST LIKE WE ESTIMATE THAT AS YOU APPROPRIATE DOLLARS TO A VARIETY OF COUNTY DEPARTMENTS, WE LOOK AT HISTORICAL SPENDING PATTERNS AND REALIZE THEY MAY NEED THE MONEY BASED ON THE PRESUMPTION THAT POSITIONS WILL BE FILLED THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, BUT WE KNOW FROM HISTORICAL EXPERIENCE THAT THERE WILL BE UNDERSPENDING WITHIN THE BUDGET, AND WE FACTOR THAT IN. >>KEVIN BECKNER: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: THANK YOU. AND NONE OF THIS IS PERSONAL, AND AS WE GO THROUGH THE HARD QUESTIONS, I MARKED THIS ONE ALSO FOR SOME ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS. I KNOW THAT THERE'S THE MANDATE ON THE STATUTE. HOW MANY OTHER COUNTIES HAVE A CIVIL SERVICE DEPARTMENT? >> I CAN'T REALLY TELL YOU THAT, SIR. THERE ARE CIVIL SERVICE BOARDS BURIED WITHIN COUNTY AGENCIES ALL OVER THE STATE. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: YEAH. >> I DON'T KNOW THE -- I THINK PROBABLY OURS, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY'S, IS THE LARGEST OF THAT GROUP, BUT I KNOW THEY EXIST IN VARIOUS COUNTIES IN VARIOUS FORMS. I TRIED TO FIND SOME OF THAT IN -- ON GOOGLE, BUT I REALLY DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO PUT IT ALL TOGETHER. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: YEAH. AND -- THANK YOU. >> I'M SURE YOU KNOW THE ANSWER. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: THERE'S JUST ONE, AND IT'S THE LARGEST ONE IN THE STATE, AND THAT'S US. >> I'D POINT OUT TO YOU THERE IS ONE RIGHT ACROSS THE BAY IN PINELLAS COUNTY. IT'S CALLED THE PINELLAS COUNTY CONSOLIDATED PERSONNEL SYSTEM, AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: YEAH. AND IT'S FUNDED BY THE COUNTY? >> YES. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: OKAY. GOOD. MY CONCERN IS THAT THIS NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT AND REEVALUATED FOR FURTHER EFFICIENCIES -- AND THIS IS SOMETHING MR. BECKNER JUST ASKED. ARE THERE AREAS WE CAN FIND THEM AND CONSIDERATIONS FOR USING FUNDS THAT ARE -- HAVE BEEN DEDICATED OR DESIGNATED BY THE ADMINISTRATOR HERE TO HELP FUND THESE ITEMS, THE PARKS AND THE ANIMAL SERVICES, THAT YOU LOOK SPECIFICALLY AT THESE ITEMS THAT ARE MARKED HERE TODAY FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION. IT CONCERNS ME THAT THERE ARE OTHER COUNTIES THAT HAVE FOUND WAYS TO EFFICIENTLY AS WELL AND AT A LOWER PRICE FROM -- FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD AND GATHERING -- I'D LIKE TO GET THAT BACK FROM ERIC -- THEIR CIVIL SERVICE, AND IT COULD BE THAT AS WE TIGHTEN UP THAT MAYBE WE SHOULDN'T BE IN THIS BUSINESS OF WORKING WITH THESE OTHER AGENCIES. MAYBE IT'S TIME TO TELL THEM TO SUCK IT UP, YOU KNOW, TO -- TO TIGHTEN UP AND HANDLE THEIR OWN AGENCY. AND IT COULD BE THAT -- THAT IT'S A MODIFICATION HERE, AND WE TALKED ABOUT DOING GOVERNMENT DIFFERENTLY, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT EFFICIENCIES, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT REEVALUATING AND MAKING SURE WE'RE REFINING THE BUSINESS THAT GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE IN. AND THE OTHER NIGHT WE TALKED ABOUT FUNDING SOURCES OR FUNDING THAT AFFECTS PEOPLE ON THE OUTSIDE, AND THIS TO ME IS AN INTRAGOVERNMENT AGENCY THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT MUCH CLOSER TO FIND FURTHER EFFICIENCIES AND CUTS TO HELP FUND THESE, AND I'LL JUST MAKE A MOTION THAT THIS BE A FLAGGED ITEM FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION OF EFFICIENCIES AND CUTS AND ASK THAT ERIC COME BACK -- AND I'D LIKE TO SEE WHEN YOU BRING THAT BACK, ERIC -- YOU SAID WE'RE BILLING OTHER GOVERNING AUTHORITIES. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT THOSE BILLS ARE, AND YOU CAN JUST GIVE THAT TO ME DIRECTLY IN THE OFFICE, I DON'T NEED THAT FOR THE BOARD, BUT I WOULD MAKE A MOTION -- >>ERIC JOHNSON: AND I HAD OFFERED IT UP, SO I'LL CERTAINLY PROVIDE IT TO THE BOARD, AND -- >>KEN HAGAN: FLAG, NOT A MOTION. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: FLAG. >>ERIC JOHNSON: AND IT'S FLAGGED. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: THANK YOU. IT'S A FLAGGED ITEM. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>MARK SHARPE: MIAMI-DADE, THEY DON'T HAVE A CIVIL SERVICE SYSTEM LIKE WE HAVE? >> THEY DO. >>MARK SHARPE: THEY DO? >> THE CITY -- YES, THEY DO, BUT IT'S -- IT'S DIFFERENT THAN OURS. THAT'S WHAT I SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T LOOK AT THIS AND SAY A CIVIL SERVICE SYSTEM IS A CIVIL SERVICE SYSTEM, ET CETERA. THEY'RE ALL -- THEY'RE DIFFERENT IN MANY CASES. CITY OF TAMPA HAS A CIVIL SERVICE BOARD. >>MARK SHARPE: WHAT IS THE -- THE -- IS THERE A LEGAL REQUIREMENT THAT WE MAINTAIN -- >>PAT BEAN: CURRENTLY THERE IS STATE STATUTE. BACK IN THE '50s, I BELIEVE IT WAS, THERE WAS CONCERN ABOUT HOW HIRING WAS BEING CONDUCTED ACROSS THE VARIOUS COUNTY ORGANIZATIONS, AND THERE WAS A DECISION BY SOME FOLKS AT THAT TIME -- THAT WAS BEFORE MY TIME, SO I DON'T KNOW WHO IT WAS -- >> I WASN'T EVEN BORN YET. >>PAT BEAN: BUT THEY WENT TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND HAD THE LEGISLATURE CREATE A CIVIL SERVICE BOARD THAT WOULD SERVE ALL THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT-LEVEL OFFICES, DEPARTMENTS, AGENCIES, AND SO THERE IS A STATE LAW THAT DOES, IN FACT, CREATE THEM, AND THE LAW WOULD HAVE TO BE ABOLISHED IF WE WERE NOT GOING TO CONTINUE TO HAVE THEM. >>MARK SHARPE: BUT I'M STILL CONFUSED AS TO WHO PARTICIPATES. I MEAN, I'M HEARING -- >>PAT BEAN: IT'S ALL THE PUBLIC AGENCIES THAT ARE CONSIDERED COUNTY AGENCIES EXCEPT MAYBE -- I DON'T BELIEVE THE SPORTS AUTHORITY DOES. >> THEY ARE. >>PAT BEAN: I'M SORRY? >> THEY ARE. >>PAT BEAN: THEY ARE? >> YES. >>PAT BEAN: OKAY. SO IT'S THE SPORTS AUTHORITY, PORT AUTHORITY, AVIATION AUTHORITY. >>MARK SHARPE: I MEAN OUTSIDE -- I'M TALKING ABOUT OUTSIDE OF OUR COUNTY. >>PAT BEAN: OH, OUT -- I CAN'T ANSWER THAT. THE LAW THAT IS -- THAT GOVERNS THIS CIVIL SERVICE WAS CREATED ON BEHALF -- >>MARK SHARPE: FOR US. >>PAT BEAN: -- OF FOLKS FROM HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY WHO WENT TO TALLAHASSEE AND SAID, WE WANT A CONSOLIDATED CIVIL SERVICE SYSTEM, AND IT WAS OVER ISSUES OF HIRING AND HOW HIRING WAS BEING DONE, THAT IT WAS BEING DONE MORE POLITICALLY THAN IT SHOULD BE, AND THEREFORE, THEY ASKED FOR A CIVIL SERVICE BOARD, AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE ONE. >>MARK SHARPE: OKAY. THANK YOU. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: YEAH. I UNDERSTAND THIS QUITE INTENTLY, FRANKLY. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS SAID THERE, IT IS A CONSOLIDATED CIVIL SERVICE BOARD. TO GET ANY TRACTION, WHAT I THINK -- WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT ALL DAY, BUT THERE'S A STATE STATUTE. WE CAN SAY STREAMLINE, WHATEVER. THEY GOT A NUMBER. THAT NUMBER IS THE NUMBER IS THE NUMBER. WHEN THEY GET THE MONEY, THEY RETURN IT IF THEY DON'T USE IT. BUT WHAT I THINK -- WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IS POLL ALL THE MEMBERS, CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS, I MEAN, AND SAY WHERE ARE WE ON THIS SUBJECT? IT'S A NONREVENUE THING RIGHT NOW. IT JUST IS. BUT I THINK THAT'S WHERE YOU GO. I THINK YOU -- YOU HAVE -- ASK THE -- IN WRITING ALL THE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS TO BE -- TO RESPOND. THAT'S I THINK WHERE YOU GO. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: SURE, AND -- >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: AND I AGREE, AND IN MY TIME HERE -- NOW, I'VE TALKED TO THESE FOLKS, AND THAT'S WHAT PROMPTED ME BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A LAW THAT WAS STARTED IN THE '50s, AND SINCE THEN WE'VE GOT COMPUTERS, WE'VE GOT GOOGLING, AND WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, OTHER WAYS TO TRACK EMPLOYEES AND TO KEEP PEOPLE HONEST, AND FOR -- FOR YOU TO SAY THAT THE LAW'S GOT TO BE ABOLISHED FOR US TO CHANGE THIS, WE CAN MODIFY THIS, WE CAN CUT THIS BACK AND CUT THIS DOWN TO AN ADMINISTRATOR AND TO A GOVERNING BOARD, MAYBE EXPAND THAT GOVERNING BOARD POSSIBLY. THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD, AND IF WE'RE UNDER -- OPERATING UNDER A LAW THAT WAS OPERATING IN THE '50s, AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT MAY OUGHT TO GO BACK TO -- >>JIM NORMAN: MY POINT IS, COMMISSIONER, WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING FINANCIALLY NOW. MAYBE WE NEED AN INTERPRETATION FROM OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY, BUT IT'S STATE STATUTE, AND THIS IS WHAT WE FUND THEM. TO DO ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE EMBODIMENT OF ALL THE MEMBERS TO APPROACH THE LEGISLATURE FOR CHANGE. AM I WRONG, RENEE LEE? >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: WELL, I DON'T THINK THIS TELLS US WE HAVE TO FUND $3.4 MILLION TOTALLY HERE AND HAVE KIDS -- >>JIM NORMAN: ERIC. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: I'VE STILL GOT THE FLOOR. >>JIM NORMAN: YOU SAID WE CAN'T DO IT BUT WE HAVE TO DO IT. THAT'S MY POINT. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: SHE SAID WE CAN'T CHANGE IT. I'M SAYING I DON'T BUY THAT YET. AS AN EXAMPLE, WE'VE GOT TWO INVESTIGATORS, THE PRS INVESTIGATORS, ARE THEY IN YOUR DEPARTMENT? >> NO, SIR. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: OKAY. WELL, I'M GOING TO GET TO THEM IN A MINUTE THEN. I DON'T KNOW WHERE -- WHAT DEPARTMENT ARE THEY IN? >>PAT BEAN: THEY'RE IN OUR HUMAN RESOURCES OFFICE. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: OKAY. YEAH, THAT'S WHERE MY NOTE IS. WE'LL TALK ABOUT THEM A LITTLE FURTHER DOWN THE LINE HERE, BUT I THINK THERE'S SOME LATITUDE, AND THAT'S WHY I'VE ASKED FOR IT TO BE FLAGGED, TO COME BACK WITH SOME SUGGESTIONS TO FIND FURTHER SAVINGS, AND IF WE'RE GOING TO POLL THEM, IT MIGHT BE NICE IF THERE WAS A WAY TO POLL THESE -- THESE OTHER CONSTITUTIONALS AND THESE OTHERS ANONYMOUSLY. IF THERE'S SOME WAY -- AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU -- IF THERE'S SOME WAY, BECAUSE -- >>JIM NORMAN: THAT SOUNDS LIKE OPEN GOVERNMENT. [LAUGHTER] >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: I KNOW. I'M BEING FACETIOUS. >>PAT BEAN: [INAUDIBLE] >>JIM NORMAN: ERIC, ARE WE BOUND -- >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: AND I STILL HAVE THE FLOOR. AND I'M AM VERY FACETIOUS THERE AS WE LOOK AT THIS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT'S ABOUT, AND I JUST HOPE THAT THE FEEDBACK THAT I'VE BEEN HEARING FOR A WHILE IS THE SAME FEEDBACK THAT WE'LL GET. AN OPERATION THAT WE HAVE THAT'S UNDER A STATUTE THAT WAS WRITTEN IN THE '50s, WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER SHARPE. >>MARK SHARPE: I'LL BACK YOU ON THAT. I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT A MAJOR RESTRUCTURING OF OUR -- OF OUR PERSONNEL, AND I THINK THAT IF NOTHING ELSE, JUST TO BETTER -- JUST FOR THE REVIEW AND TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION AND TO INCLUDE THAT -- AGAIN, I'LL GO BACK -- WE WERE ASKING SOME -- WE'RE WORKING TOGETHER AS A TEAM TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A BETTER WAY OF DOING THINGS, AND I DO THINK WE DO NEED TO BRING THE CONSTITUTIONALS INTO THIS CONVERSATION. I'VE HEARD THIS -- THIS HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP MANY, MANY TIMES BEFORE TO ME, AND I WASN'T EVEN SURE, GENE, WHERE TO BEGIN WITH IT, BUT I THINK THAT WE DO NEED TO LOOK AT IT, AND -- AND SO I -- I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO HERE, AND I THINK THAT I WOULD JUST ASK THE ADMINISTRATION TO -- TO WORK WITH -- WITH THIS BOARD TO TRY TO -- TO AT LEAST IF NOTHING ELSE BETTER EXPLAIN WHY WE HAVE THE SYSTEM WE HAVE. I THINK -- I THINK -- I MEAN, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT AT ALL. WE OUGHT TO BE ASKING THAT QUESTION. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: AND I AGREE, BUT WE ALL GOT TO BE DEALING WITH THE FACTS. WE CAN'T JUST BE THROWING STUFF OUT THERE THAT'S INACCURATE. >>MARK SHARPE: [INDISCERNIBLE CROSS TALK] >>JIM NORMAN: MY POINT IS, ARE WE BOUND BY A NUMBER? >>ERIC JOHNSON: I BELIEVE SO, BUT I DIDN'T GO TO LAW SCHOOL. >>PAT BEAN: WE'RE BOUND TO THE -- WE'RE BOUND TO THE FORMULA THAT'S IN THE LAW. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER IS UNTIL -- >>JIM NORMAN: THAT'S WHAT MY POINT IS. WE'RE BOUND TO A NUMBER THAT WE CAN'T SAY -- WE'RE BOUND TO A NUMBER. THAT'S NOT -- SO WHAT I'M TRYING -- WHAT IT'S TRYING TO SAY AS WELL AS I COULD POSSIBLY SAY IT IS THIS IS NOT A COST- CUTTING MEASURE FOR THIS YEAR. WE'RE BOUND STATE LAW TO A FORMULA THAT DICTATES THE AMOUNT OF MONEY OR HE -- WHEN HE GETS IT, IF HE DOESN'T USE IT, HE'S RETURNING LIKE A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS OR WHATEVER. IF WE WANT TO ADDRESS IT IN THE FUTURE, WE BRING THE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS IN, WE ASK THEM IN WRITING DO THEY SUPPORT IT OR NOT, WE DON'T MEET THEM IN THE BACK HALL AND SAY, YOU KNOW, BUMP ME ON THE SHOULDER TWICE IF YOU LIKE THIS OR NOT. LET'S BE OUT FRONT, DO WE WANT TO DEAL WITH IT OR NOT, AND MOVE FORWARD THAT WAY. THAT'S THE APPROPRIATE WAY THAT EVERYBODY HAS THEIR -- THEIR STUFF ON THE TABLE. THAT'S -- AND AGREE -- I AGREE, COMMISSIONER SHARPE, LET'S DO THE LOOK, BUT EVERYBODY'S GOT TO SAY HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT IT BEFORE WE GO FORWARD. WE'RE GOING TO BE LAUGHED OUT OF TALLAHASSEE IF WE GO UP THERE US ALONE AND WE HAVE CONSTITUTIONALS THAT WERE -- >>MARK SHARPE: OH, SURE. >>JIM NORMAN: YOU KNOW -- >>MARK SHARPE: I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: WE HAVE A FLAGGED ITEM WITH A SECOND, AND YOU MISTOOK MY JOKE ON THE ANONYMOUS BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, BUT OUR -- AGAIN, I WANT TO KNOW ARE WE -- IN THIS FORMULA THAT YOU DISCUSS, IS THE FORMULA -- WHEN YOU SAT DOWN WITH YOUR MATH, IS IT $3,443,600, AND IF IT IS, THEN IT'S STUCK. IF NOT -- >>ERIC JOHNSON: YES. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: OKAY. SO WE'RE STUCK WITH THIS. >>ERIC JOHNSON: WELL -- >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: THEN THE NEXT THING IS WHY IS HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY USING THIS SYSTEM, IS THERE GOING TO BE ONE THAT'S CHEAPER, BUT WE'LL HAVE TO GET INTO THAT LATER. BUT WE STILL HAVE THE FLAGGED ITEM HE. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. COMMISSIONERS, THE WORKSHOP WAS SCHEDULED FROM 1:30 TO 3:30. WE'RE AT 3:45 WITH A 6:00 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING THIS EVENING. WHAT'S THE PLEASURE OF THE BOARD? WE HAVE EIGHT ITEMS LEFT. I'D SUGGEST WE CARRY THEM OVER TO OUR NEXT THURSDAY AFTERNOON'S WORKSHOP. COMMISSIONER WHITE, DO YOU WANT TO COMMENT ON THIS OR SOMETHING ELSE OR -- >>KEVIN WHITE: NO. MR. CHAIRMAN, I WANTED TO SAY THE SAME THING. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT -- I MEAN, I'D LIKE TO MOVE THESE ITEMS TO THE WORKSHOP NEXT WEEK, BUT I DO HAVE A -- A COMMENT THAT I'D LIKE TO MAKE. I'D LIKE TO PASS THESE OUT TO THE BOARD MEMBERS AND GIVE OUR STAFF -- >> IS THIS FOR US? >>KEVIN WHITE: YES. FOR EACH ONE OF YOU, AND THEN I'LL GIVE TO THE THREE OVER HERE. FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT THESE ARE TOUGH TIMES, AND IN TOUGH TIMES WE NEED TO MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS, AND LAST WEEK THIS BOARD LED BY EXAMPLE. WE -- THERE WAS A MOTION BY A BOARD MEMBER THAT WE CUT OUR PAY AS TOP-LEVEL ADMINISTRATORS HERE IN THE COUNTY. TODAY THERE WAS AN ARTICLE IN THE ST. PETERSBURG TIMES, AND I HAVE RECEIVED NUMEROUS PHONE CALLS IN MY OFFICE, I'VE RECEIVED NUMEROUS E-MAILS THAT I'VE BEEN LOOKING AT APPEAR AND SINCE THAT TIME THIS MORNING. WE HAVE CONSTANTLY ASKED OUR EMPLOYEES AND THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTY TO DO MORE WITH LESS. WE OURSELVES AS COMMISSIONERS ARE HAVING TO DO MORE WITH LESS. I THINK IT IS INCUMBENT UPON US AS AN ADMINISTRATION IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CUTS, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LAYING PEOPLE OFF -- WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT JOBS THAT ARE OPEN, THAT AREN'T FILLED, WE'RE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT FIRING PEOPLE IN THESE TOUGH ECONOMIC TIMES. I THINK OUR ADMINISTRATION NEEDS TO TAKE A NEW LOOK AT WHAT IT IS THAT THEY'RE DOING. I REALIZE THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL TOP-LEVEL ADMINISTRATORS THAT ARE TAKING ON INSURMOUNTABLE TASKS DURING THESE TOUGH ECONOMIC TIMES. I REALIZE MS. BEAN AND HER STAFF HAVE DONE A DAUNTING AND YEOMAN'S JOB OF PUTTING THIS BUDGET TOGETHER, ALTHOUGH WE DON'T AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S IN THE BUDGET, BUT IT'S YOUR JOB AS OUR ADMINISTRATOR TO PRESENT US WITH A BUDGET, AND IF WE DON'T AGREE WITH IT, NOW WE'RE IN THE PROCESS THAT WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW AND WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THAT, AND THEN WE WILL FIGURE IT OUT AS A GROUP AND WE WILL GET THROUGH THIS AS HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY HAS ALWAYS DONE IN THE PAST. BUT DURING THE LAST MEETING -- YOU KNOW, NO MATTER WHAT THE DISCUSSION IS ON THIS BOARD, THE QUESTION IS STILL WHERE'S THE MONEY COMING FROM? WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO? WE CAN HAVE DISCUSSIONS, WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT ALL DAY LONG, BUT WE NEED TO COME UP WITH SOME VIABLE SOLUTIONS AND SOME VIABLE ANSWERS AND SOME GOOD, PRODUCTIVE CONVERSATION. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I ASKED FOR DURING OUR LAST BUDGET PROCESS THAT I JUST GOT IS A LIST OF ALL EMPLOYEES THAT WORK FOR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY THAT HAVE BEEN HERE MORE THAN 30 YEARS. I HAVE A LIST THAT I'VE PASSED OUT TO MY BOARD MEMBERS AND THE ADMINISTRATION UP HERE. AS OF THE BUDGET CYCLE THAT WILL TAKE PLACE FOR 2010, WE HAVE 337 EMPLOYEES THAT HAVE BEEN AT HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY 30 YEARS OR MORE, AND I ASKED MS. BEAN, WAS IT 25 OR 30 YEARS, AND 30 YEARS SEEMED TO BE THE MAGIC NUMBER THAT WOULD HAVE OUR COUNTY EMPLOYEES FULLY VESTED, MAXED OUT AT FULL STATE RETIREMENT, AND WITHOUT LOSING ANY TYPE OF COMPENSATION OR BENEFITS. OF THE 337, 24 OF THOSE MAKE OVER $100,000 A YEAR, 59 OF THOSE MAKE OVER $90,000 A YEAR, AND 99 OF THEM MAKE OVER $80,000 A YEAR. OF THE 337, THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF THAT -- OF THE SALARIES FOR THOSE 337 PEOPLE ARE $22.6 MILLION. NOW, WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM? LET'S START BY -- WHEN WE SAY CUTTING THE FAT, MOST OF THESE ARE HARD, HARDWORKING PEOPLE, AND -- BUT MY POINT IS IN CORPORATE AMERICA AND COMING FROM CORPORATE AMERICA, WE OFFER BUYOUT PACKAGES TO ENTICE OLDER, MORE TENURED PEOPLE TO RETIRE TO MAKE ROOM FOR THE YOUNGER, LESS TENURED INDIVIDUALS. NOW, WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN HERE 30, 35 YEARS THAT ARE MAKING $100-, $150,000 A YEAR. YOU CAN'T TELL ME THAT WE CAN'T HIRE TWO OR THREE PEOPLE TO REPLACE THEM AND GET MORE PRODUCTIVITY WITH -- WHEN WE'RE ASKING TO DO MORE WITH LESS, WE COULD GET MORE WITH LESS BY CUTTING THE FAT OFF OF THE TOP, AND IF WE OFFER SOME OF THESE PEOPLE BUYOUT PACKAGES, I GUARANTEE YOU IT WOULDN'T BE $22 MILLION, AND ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THE GREAT MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO LEAVE THE COUNTY IS BECAUSE OF THE GREAT BENEFIT PACKAGES THAT WE HAVE. IT'S THE INSURANCE COSTS. WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO HOPEFULLY AUGMENT OR SEGMENT THIS TYPE OF -- DEFRAY THE COST TO SOME OF OUR EMPLOYEES. THAT WAY THEY CAN GO AND ENJOY RETIREMENT AND -- AND WE'RE NOT LAYING OFF 6- OR 700 PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THEIR 30s AND 40s WHO NEED JOBS EVERY DAY, THAT NEED TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILIES, THAT HAVE CHILDREN IN SCHOOL THAT THEY'RE STILL TRYING TO RAISE RATHER THAN -- WITH SO MANY BABY BOOMERS HERE, WE NEED TO KEEP OUR YOUNG PEOPLE WORKING THAT -- THAT NEED TO WORK, THAT HAVE FAMILIES TO RAISE. IT IS SO HARD TO SEE THOSE TYPES OF INDIVIDUALS BEING LAID OFF IN THESE TOUGH ECONOMIC TIMES RATHER THAN SOMEONE WITH 40 YEARS OF SERVICE WHO'S AT THE TOP OF THEIR FIELD WHO IS SITTING OUT ON THE STOOP SMOKING CIGARETTES AND DRINKING COFFEE EVERY 30 MINUTES YOU LOOK OUT THE WINDOW AND YOU SEE THEM. IT'S -- IT'S -- IT'S HEARTBREAKING. IT REALLY IS. AND NOT TO SAY THAT WE DON'T GET WHAT WE PAY FOR, BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT GOOD LEADERS LEAD BY DELEGATION. MS. BEAN CAN'T DO ALL OF THIS ON HER OWN. SHE'S THE CHIEF. SHE HAS INDIANS THAT GO OUT AND GATHER ALL THIS INFORMATION FOR HER, AND THEY COME BACK AND THEY PUT IT ALL TOGETHER. WE HAVE A GREAT MANAGEMENT TEAM, BUT WE NEED -- BUT WE HAVE A LOT OF GREAT INDIANS AROUND HERE TOO THAT COULD BE CHIEFS AS WELL, AND I THINK IT'S TIME THAT WE LOOK OUT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO -- WE PUT THE BACK -- WE PUT THE BURDEN ON THEIR BACKS HERE AT THE COUNTY TO PROVIDE THE SERVICES AND -- THE PARKS AND RECREATION PEOPLE, THE VICTIMS ASSISTANCE PEOPLE, THE ANIMAL SERVICES PEOPLE. WE CAN KEEP A GREAT MAJORITY OF THESE PEOPLE IF WE CAN BE INNOVATIVE AND TRY AND SAVE THIS $22 MILLION. IF WE COULD STOP BEING SELFISH AND START LOOKING AT THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION -- AND IF YOU'VE GOT 35 YEARS ON OF SERVICE, I WOULDN'T THINK THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD HAVE COME TO WORK FOR THE COUNTY AT A MINIMUM WOULD BE HERE STARTING AT 20 YEARS OF AGE, SO IF YOU'VE GOT 35, YOU'RE 55, 60 YEARS OLD. HOPEFULLY YOU DON'T HAVE SMALL CHILDREN RUNNING AROUND IN SECOND AND THIRD GRADE WHO NEED AFTERSCHOOL CARE, AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAMS. YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY YOUR HOUSE IS PAID FOR. HOPEFULLY YOUR CAR IS PAID FOR. BUT WE HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT CAN PROVIDE AN ENTIRE CAREER OF SERVICE TO HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY STILL WAITING IN THE WINGS THAT ARE POTENTIALLY GOING TO BE IN THE UNEMPLOYMENT LINE, AND I THINK WE CAN MAKE ROOM FOR SOME OF THESE PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THEIR JOBS AND STAY EMPLOYED, AND I JUST IMPLORE THE ADMINISTRATION TO LOOK AT THESE NUMBERS AND HOPEFULLY COME UP WITH SOME TYPE OF STRATEGY, AND MS. BEAN SAID IN THE LAST MEETING THAT THESE OPTIONS HAD BEEN EXPLORED BEFORE IN THE PAST. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OUTCOME OR WE HAVEN'T HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THE MEETING OR DISCUSS THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE YET, BUT I THINK IT'S TIME THAT WE REVISIT THAT TOPIC AND DISCUSS IT AND COME UP WITH SOME POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS, AND I MEAN, THIS IS A $22-MILLION POT OF MONEY ANNUALLY, AND NOW WE'RE LOOKING -- YOU SAY THE WHOLE -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING FOR $9 MILLION. I MEAN, WELL -- I MEAN, I THINK WE CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING. AND LIKE I SAID, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT VIABLE SOLUTIONS. I THINK THIS IS A VERY VIABLE SOLUTION TO LOOK AT, AND I'D REALLY LIKE THE TAKE OF SOME OF MY BOARD MEMBERS ON THAT, AND MAYBE WE'LL PUT IT ON THE TABLE FOR DISCUSSION LATER WHEN THE ADMINISTRATION COMES BACK WITH IT, BUT I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT SOME OF MY OTHER BOARD MEMBERS AND COLLEAGUES THINK OF THE IDEA. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER BECKNER. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU, MR. -- >>KEN HAGAN: I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS ITEM OR -- >>KEVIN BECKNER: YEAH, NO, I'VE GOT A COMMENT ON THIS AND THEN I'VE GOT ONE OTHER COMMENT THAT I'LL MAKE. YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT, MR. WHITE, WE'VE GOT TO LOOK AT HOW WE'RE ABLE TO DO MORE WITH LESS, AND I'LL COMMENT A LITTLE BIT ON THE RETIREMENT PACKAGES. THROUGH THE FEDERAL RETIREMENT SYSTEM, THERE'S A PROGRAM CALLED THE DEFERRED RETIREMENT OPTION PROGRAM, WHERE AS NONHIGH-RISK EMPLOYEES OF THE COUNTY, ONCE THEY REACH 30 YEARS OF SERVICE THEY'RE ELIGIBLE TO ENTER THIS PROGRAM AND STAY AN ADDITIONAL FIVE YEARS, SO THERE IS A PROGRAM THAT IS MEANT TO GIVE PEOPLE INCENTIVES TO ACTUALLY RETIRE, AND WITH THAT THEY GET A LUMP SUM OF MONEY AS WELL AS A LIFETIME PENSION, AND SO THERE IS A PROGRAM IN PLACE. THE QUESTION, I THINK, WHERE THE ADMINISTRATION CAN PLAY AROUND WITH IS A LOT OF IT CAN BE BASED ON WHAT THE AGES ARE OF THE PEOPLE. IF THE -- IF SOME OF THESE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, STARTED HERE WHEN THEY WERE 19 AND 20 AND THEY'RE NOW MAYBE 39, 49 YEARS OLD, THEN THAT'S WHERE THERE MAY BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO STAY ON LONGER OR THEY HAVE THE OPTION TO STAY ON A LITTLE BIT LONGER UNTIL THEY REACH THE DESIGNATED RETIREMENT AGE, SO I THINK THERE IS A PROCESS IN PLACE. WE CAN CERTAINLY -- MS. BEAN CAN COMMENT LATER ON AS FAR AS THE OTHER OPTIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO US, BUT THAT'S WHY THE DROP AND THE FRS PROGRAM IS IN, AND I KNOW DEPENDING ON WHO YOU TALK TO, CERTAINLY THERE'S SOME CONTROVERSIES AROUND THAT ABOUT THE DOUBLE DIPPERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. WE CAN HAVE THOSE TYPES OF DISCUSSIONS, BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS. I JUST DON'T KNOW, AGAIN, HOW MUCH FURTHER THAT WE -- OTHER THAN THE DROP AND FRS, WE JUST NEED TO LOOK AT MAYBE SOME OF OUR DIFFERENT OPTIONS. SOMETHING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON AND SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE ON THE MINDS OF OUR OTHER COMMISSIONERS, WE STARTED GETTING A LOT OF E-MAILS THIS MORNING AS WELL AS TELEPHONE CALLS, AND IT'S REGARDING A NEWSPAPER ARTICLE THAT CAME OUT TODAY, AND I KNOW SOME OF MY BOARD MEMBERS AND PERHAPS SOME OTHER PEOPLE DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO GO HERE, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, I'M ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PEOPLE, AND I'VE GOT TO GET SOME ANSWERS MYSELF AND HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S GOING ON. WE'VE ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT -- AND AS WE KICKED OFF THE BUDGET PROCESS, WE TALKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF BEING ABLE TO GO TO THE FRONT LINE AND DO MORE WITH LESS, AND WE AS A COMMISSION, AS ALREADY HAS BEEN STATED, WE'VE TAKEN A PAY CUT, AND THE REAL QUESTION IS HOW PAY RAISES ARE BEING GIVEN TO OTHER EMPLOYEES. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO -- I KNOW THAT ALWAYS WHAT GOES INTO A NEWSPAPER ARTICLE AND WHAT GOES ON TELEVISION, THERE'S ALWAYS NOT ENOUGH SPACE TO TELL THE WHOLE STORY, SO WHAT I'M ASKING FOR THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, IF SHE COULD GIVE SOME EXPLANATION FOR -- TO THE PUBLIC AS WELL AS TO THIS BOARD HOW THIS ALL -- ALL THE PAY RAISES CAME ABOUT AND -- AND WHY THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE GETTING PAY RAISES, AND PLEASE ALSO LET ME STATE FOR THE RECORD THAT I AM NOT QUESTIONING THE PERFORMANCE OF THESE INDIVIDUALS, THE VALUE THAT THEY BRING TO THIS ORGANIZATION. IT'S JUST -- IT'S PERCEPTION IS REALITY, AND RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, WE'RE CUTTING ACROSS THE BOARD, AND THE QUESTION IN THE PUBLIC'S MINDS AS WELL AS MY MIND IS WHY NOW ARE WE GIVING PAY RAISES TO SOME? SO I THOUGHT, MS. BEAN, MAYBE IF YOU COULD ENLIGHTEN US AND HELP US UNDERSTAND WHERE ALL THIS CAME FROM. >>PAT BEAN: I CERTAINLY CAN. LAST YEAR WHEN WE WERE DEALING WITH THIS YEAR'S BUDGET, THE PROPOSED AND THE ACCEPTED SALARY INCREASE FOR ALL EMPLOYEES WAS LIMITED TO A 2.25% MARKET EQUITY ADJUSTMENT UNLESS AN EMPLOYEE WAS PROMOTED, TOOK ON MORE RESPONSIBILITY. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU DO IN ANY KIND OF HUMAN RESOURCES PROGRAM, WHETHER IT'S CIVIL SERVICE OR NONCIVIL SERVICE IS YOU HAVE TO COMPENSATE PEOPLE ACCORDING TO THE LEVEL OF DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES THAT THEY TAKE ON. THE FOLKS WHO STEPPED UP AND TOOK ON ADDITIONAL RESPONSIBILITIES WERE COMPENSATED IN THE SAME MANNER THAT OTHER EMPLOYEES WHO HAVE GOTTEN PROMOTIONS -- THE RULES ALLOW FOR CERTAIN PERCENTAGES OF PROMOTIONS BASED ON WHETHER YOU'RE -- LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU'RE AN EMPLOYEE AND YOU'RE VERY LOW IN YOUR CURRENT RANGE AND YOU GET PROMOTED TO THE NEXT HIGHER -- NEXT HIGHER PAY GRADE AND THAT MEANS YOU'VE GOT TO GO UP BY 15%, 20%, THAT'S WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU GO UP BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE AT LEAST AT THE MINIMUM OF THAT LEVEL. TYPICALLY WHEN SOMEONE IN THE UNCLASSIFIED SERVICE GETS A PROMOTION, IT'S SOMETHING IN THE RANGE OF 5% TO 10%, IN THAT RANGE, AND THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE 2.5 OR -- WAS IT 2.5 OR 2.25? >>ERIC JOHNSON: 2.25. >>PAT BEAN: -- 2.25 MARKET EQUITY ADJUSTMENT. THAT -- EVERY EMPLOYEE IN THE COUNTY GOT THAT. THIS AND THESE INCREASES WERE BASED ON DECISIONS WHERE PEOPLE -- WELL, LET'S SAY THIS. I HAD SOME PEOPLE WHO WERE MAXED OUT IN THEIR CURRENT RANGE. I ASKED THEM TO TAKE ON AN ADDITIONAL RESPONSIBILITY THAT WAS SIGNIFICANT. THERE WAS NO WAY I COULD TELL THAT PERSON THAT I WAS ONLY GOING TO GIVE THEM THAT 2.25% THAT. WOULD HAVE BEEN IN VIOLATION OF OUR POLICY TO BEGIN WITH. AND SO THEY WERE COMPENSATED THROUGH THE PROMOTIONAL PROCESS FOR THE NEW DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES THAT THEY WERE AGREEING TO ASSUME. I'VE CHECKED, AND THE FOLKS WHO ARE ON MY EXECUTIVE TEAM DON'T MAKE AS MUCH MONEY OVERALL AS MANY OTHER EXECUTIVE TEAM MEMBERS ACROSS THE STATE AT COUNTY GOVERNMENT LEVELS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO US IN SIZE. AND I CHECKED THEN TO BE SURE THAT I WASN'T PUTTING THEM AT A LEVEL THAT WOULD PUT THEM OUT OF WHACK OR OUT OF WHAT WAS APPROPRIATE PAY -- PAY LEVELS. NOT ONE OF THEM -- NOT ONE OF THEM, I BELIEVE, WOULD HAVE WANTED TO ASSUME ALL THE ADDITIONAL RESPONSIBILITY, ALL THE ADDITIONAL HOURS THAT THEY ARE REQUIRED TO BE HERE, AND AGAIN, AS I SAY, SOME OF THEM HAD BEEN HERE LONG ENOUGH THAT THEY WERE RIGHT AT THE MAX OF THEIR RANGE. I HAD TO BE ABLE TO COMPENSATE THEM IN ORDER TO ENTICE THEM TO TAKE ON THE ADDITIONAL WORK. >>KEVIN BECKNER: I GUESS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE, I ADDED UP THE DIFFERENCES IN THE -- IN THE PAY RAISES, AND -- AND I'M MAKING AN ASSUMPTION BECAUSE I HAVE GREAT CONFIDENCE IN YOU AS A COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND THE STAFF THAT SOMEWHERE WE MADE CUTS OR WE CREATED EFFICIENCIES AND ASKED THESE PEOPLE TO TAKE ON ADDITIONAL RESPONSIBILITIES SO THAT WE COULD SAVE MONEY AND ALSO AGAIN CREATE MORE EFFICIENCY IN GOVERNMENT. I CALCULATED THAT TO BE ABOUT $101,649, AND I GUESS MY QUESTION IS HOW MUCH MONEY DID WE SAVE OR HOW MUCH IN EFFICIENCIES DID WE CREATE TO JUSTIFY AN ADDITIONAL $101,000 IN SALARIES? >>PAT BEAN: THE NUMBER WAS ACTUALLY -- THE NUMBER THAT I STARTED WITH THAT I HAD ON THE TABLE BY SAVINGS THAT I HAD ALREADY MADE BY ELIMINATING OTHER POSITIONS -- I HAD ELIMINATED THREE POSITIONS IN MY OFFICE. THAT CREATED AN AMOUNT JUST OVER A HALF A MILLION. WHEN YOU TAKE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT I GAVE TO THESE PEOPLE, THERE WAS STILL A SAVINGS OF OVER 400,000, SO I USED SOME OF THE MONEY SAVED FROM ELIMINATING THREE POSITIONS TO PROMOTE THESE INDIVIDUALS AND ASK THEM TO TAKE ON THE WORK IN ADDITION TO EVERYTHING THEY WERE ALREADY DOING. >>KEVIN BECKNER: OKAY. AND I GUESS MY OTHER QUESTION, THEN, IS -- AND THIS IS WHERE I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A RANK-AND-FILE EMPLOYEES BECAUSE WE WERE -- WE'RE CUTTING SOME OF THE EMPLOYEES, WE'RE ASKING OUR RANK-AND-FILE EMPLOYEES TO TAKE ON AND DO MORE BUT NOT NECESSARILY GET A PAY RAISE, SO THE QUESTION, THEN, IS WHEN AND HOW DO WE JUSTIFY ASKING SOMEBODY TO TAKE ON MORE RESPONSIBILITY WITHOUT GIVING THEM ADDITIONAL PAY? I MEAN, BECAUSE I THINK PART OF OUR PHILOSOPHY HERE, WHICH I AGREE WITH -- WHEN WE'RE IN THESE TIGHT TIMES, WE ALL NEED TO TIGHTEN OUR BELT. WE ALL AS TEAM PLAYERS NEED TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND DO MORE, BUT MY QUESTION IS HOW DO WE JUSTIFY TO THE RANK-AND- FILE EMPLOYEES THAT ARE ASKED TO TAKE ON MORE RESPONSIBILITIES AND THEY'RE NOT GETTING ANY ADDITIONAL DOLLARS? >>PAT BEAN: WELL, COMMISSIONER, IF THEY ARE GETTING A PROMOTION TO A NEW POSITION, THEY WILL GET COMPENSATION IN ADDITION BECAUSE THAT'S A REQUIREMENT UNDER THE CIVIL SERVICE RULES. WE DON'T HAVE THAT OPTION NOT TO GIVE THEM A PAY RAISE. IF THEY ARE TAKING ON EXTRA JUST LIKE ALL OF US ON THE EXECUTIVE TEAM ARE DOING A LOT MORE TODAY BECAUSE I'M GETTING READY TO REDUCE THE STAFFING IN MY OFFICE EVEN FURTHER THAN I HAD AS OF THE TIME I PROMOTED THESE FOLKS, THERE WON'T BE ANYBODY COMING IN BEHIND THESE FOLKS TO TAKE UP ANY OF THE SLACK, SO THEY'LL BE TAKING UP MORE RESPONSIBILITY JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE ACROSS THE ORGANIZATION. THEY WON'T GET ONE PENNY MORE FOR THAT. LET ME ALSO BE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ALL OF THE TOP- LEVEL FOLKS IN THIS ORGANIZATION ARE BEING ASKED TO TAKE A 20% REDUCTION IN THEIR AUTO ALLOWANCE. THE MAXIMUM AUTO ALLOWANCE THAT ANY EMPLOYEE HAS RECEIVED EVER IN THIS ORGANIZATION IS $295 A MONTH. SOME OF THEM ARE AT 195 A MONTH. ALL OF THEM WILL TAKE A 20% REDUCTION IN THEIR AUTO ALLOWANCE. WE ALSO WILL ALL BE TAKING A REDUCTION IN OUR PAY BASED ON THE FURLOUGH DAYS. IS THERE ONE OTHER THING? >>ERIC JOHNSON: [INAUDIBLE] >>PAT BEAN: OH, AND CURRENTLY ALL EMPLOYEES GET 1.5% CONTRIBUTED BY THE COUNTY INTO THEIR DEFERRED COMPENSATION PLANS IF THEY OPENED A PLAN. SOME OF THEM NEVER OPENED THE PLAN, SO THEY HAVE BEEN MISSING OUT ON THAT OPPORTUNITY. ALL EMPLOYEES WILL BE TAKING A 1.5% REDUCTION IN THE DEFERRED COMPENSATION. CLEARLY FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE AT THE HIGHER LEVELS OF THE ORGANIZATION, THOSE CUTS ARE MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT FROM AN AMOUNT, BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THOSE CUTS ARE VERY SIGNIFICANT FOR OTHER PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE ORGANIZATION, BUT AT THE UPPER LEVELS, 20% LESS AUTO ALLOWANCE, FURLOUGH DAYS NO PAY, AND THE DEFERRED COMP. >>KEVIN BECKNER: I GUESS STILL ONE OF MY QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE IS, IS WHEN -- WHEN SOMEBODY TAKES ON NEW RESPONSIBILITIES OR MORE WORK, WHEN IS IT DETERMINED THAT THEY ARE THEN SENT TO ANOTHER PAY GRADE? BECAUSE I GET IF YOU PUT THEM IN ANOTHER -- >>PAT BEAN: AT THE TIME OF PROMOTION. >>KEVIN BECKNER: BUT I MEAN, WHEN IS IT DETERMINED THAT IF THEY'RE TALKING ON -- HOW MUCH MORE WORK DO THEY HAVE TO TAKE ON BEFORE THEY GO UP INTO ANOTHER PAY GRADE I GUESS IS MY QUESTION? AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK THE PUBLIC AND MYSELF ARE CONCERNED ABOUT IS WHEN WE'RE ASKING EMPLOYEES TO TAKE ON MORE RESPONSIBILITIES, WHEN IS IT THAT IT IS JUSTIFIED TO PUT THEM INTO A DIFFERENT -- IN ANOTHER PAY GRADE AS OPPOSED TO SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU NEED TO SUCK UP, YOU NEED TO DO A LITTLE BIT MORE, AND -- JUST RIGHT NOW WHILE TIMES ARE TIGHT. >>PAT BEAN: IT'S WHEN THE PERSON MOVES FROM ONE CLASSIFICATION TO A HIGHER CLASSIFICATION. >>KEVIN BECKNER: OH, NO, IN, I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT I GUESS MY QUESTION IS WHEN IS IT DETERMINED THAT THEY NEED TO MOVE ON TO ANOTHER CLASSIFICATION AS OPPOSED TO STAYING AND -- AT THEIR CURRENT CLASSIFICATION DOING MORE WORK BUT GETTING THE SAME PAY? SO I GUESS -- I KNOW THIS MAY BE A COMPLEX QUESTION, BUT AGAIN, IF WE'RE ASKING PEOPLE TO DO MORE, WHEN IS IT THAT WE WOULD SAY, OKAY, YOU'RE DOING MORE, SO WE'RE GOING TO INCREASE -- WE'RE GOING TO BUMP YOU UP IN THE CLASSIFICATIONS VERSUS, YOU KNOW WHAT, I REALLY NEED YOU TO TAKE ON MORE RESPONSIBILITIES, I CAN'T BUMP YOU UP RIGHT NOW IN CLASSIFICATIONS, BUT PLEASE DO MORE FOR OUR ORGANIZATION? >>PAT BEAN: WELL, LET ME JUST USE A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE. I'M GOING TO USE MY GOOD FRIEND AND THE COUNTY BUDGET DIRECTOR HERE. FOR YEARS HE'S BEEN A DEPARTMENT HEAD FOR THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT. IT DIDN'T MATTER IF HE TOOK ON ADDITIONAL WORK, HE ONLY GOT WHATEVER INCREASE EVERY YEAR THAT THE REST OF THE ORGANIZATION RECEIVED. WHEN HE AGREED TO TAKE ON -- HOW MANY DEPARTMENTS? >>ERIC JOHNSON: FIVE. >>PAT BEAN: -- FIVE DEPARTMENTS IN ADDITION TO ALL THE WORK HE ALREADY HAD, THE ONLY WAY TO COMPENSATE HIM FOR TAKING ON THAT FIVE DEPARTMENTS OF RESPONSIBILITY, MEANING HE IS THE PERSON WHO OVERSEES THOSE FIVE DEPARTMENTS AND ASSURES ME THAT THEY'RE DOING WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, THAT WAS WHEN HE MOVED FROM BEING A DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR TO THE NEXT HIGHEST CLASSIFICATION, AND IT'S THE ONLY OTHER CLASSIFICATION BETWEEN DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR AND MY OWN POSITION. THAT'S WHEN HE GOT AN INCREASE. AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED WITH EVERY ONE OF THEM WHO WERE IDENTIFIED IN THE NEWSPAPER TODAY. >>KEVIN BECKNER: I GUESS I'LL MAKE ONE FINAL COMMENT, AND I'LL LET OTHER BOARD MEMBERS, IF THEY WANT TO, MAKE OTHER COMMENTS. ARE WE EXPECTING THAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE -- ARE THERE OTHER PEOPLE IN OUR ORGANIZATION THAT ARE GOING TO BE GETTING THE PAY RAISES? AND WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS, WE JUST -- IT'S VERY AWKWARD TO SEE IN THE NEWSPAPER AND START GETTING E-MAILS AND PHONE CALLS WITH PEOPLE WANTING TO KNOW, YOU KNOW -- BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN TOUTING THAT WE'RE TIGHTENING OUR BELT, WE'RE CUTTING OUR OWN SALARIES, WE'RE CUTTING HERE, CUTTING THERE, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN WE SEE WHERE PEOPLE ARE GETTING PAY RAISES. I GUESS WHERE I DON'T WANT TO BE -- I WANT TO HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING SO I CAN PROVIDE AN ANSWER TO THE PUBLIC AS FAR AS WHY ARE YOU CUTTING SERVICES, WHY ARE YOU CUTTING OTHER PEOPLE'S PAYS AND JOBS WHEN YOU'RE RAISING OTHER PEOPLE'S COMPENSATION LEVEL? I GET THE RECLASSIFICATION, BUT I NEED TO KNOW AND I THINK THE BOARD WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, ARE THERE ANY OTHER PAY INCREASES THAT WE'RE EXPECTING WITHINSIDE THE ORGANIZATION THAT HAVEN'T ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED? >>PAT BEAN: THERE WILL BE, AS ALWAYS, SOME RECLASSES THAT WILL OCCUR. THOSE WILL GET PAY INCREASES. IF SOMEONE VIES FOR A JOB THAT IS AT A HIGHER LEVEL AND THEY ARE SELECTED AND MOVES TO THAT HIGHER LEVEL, THEY WILL GET AN INCREASE. >>KEVIN WHITE: WILL THEY START OUT AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT CLASSIFICATION? >>PAT BEAN: IT DEPENDS ON WHERE THEY WERE. I CAN TELL YOU THAT MR. MERRILL, WHO IS ALSO ONE OF THE PEOPLE REFERRED TO IN THE ARTICLE, WAS AT THE VERY TOP OF HIS RANGE AS A DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR. I BELIEVE HE'S BEEN WITH THE COUNTY 20-SOMETHING YEARS. I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT NUMBER. BUT HE WAS AT THE VERY TOP OF HIS RANGE. THE ONLY WAY TO GIVE HIM AN INCREASE WAS TO GO INTO THE NEXT RANGE AS HE TOOK ON THOSE ADDITIONAL RESPONSIBILITIES, AND HE TOOK ON THE WATER DEPARTMENT, HE TOOK ON SOLID WASTE, HE TOOK ON CODE ENFORCEMENT, HE TOOK ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND I THINK THERE'S ONE MORE. >>ERIC JOHNSON: AFFORDABLE HOUSING. >>PAT BEAN: AFFORDABLE HOUSING. HE TOOK ON ALL THOSE RESPONSIBILITIES. HE WAS ALREADY AT THE TOP OF HIS RANGE. HE HAD NOWHERE ELSE TO GO. THAT'S NOT WHY I PROMOTED HIM. I DIDN'T PROMOTE HIM BECAUSE HE HAD NOWHERE ELSE TO GO. I PROMOTED HIM BECAUSE I NEEDED HIM TO HELP WITH THOSE DEPARTMENTS BECAUSE I HAD ELIMINATED THE DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND I HAD ELIMINATED ANOTHER ASSISTANT COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND I ELIMINATED ONE OTHER POSITION, AND NONE OF THEM WERE TREATED ANY WAY OUTSIDE THE STANDARD POLICY OF THIS COUNTY. EVEN WHEN WE CUT ALL THE PEOPLE WE'RE GOING TO CUT, THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO WILL GET PROMOTIONS, AND THEY WILL GET PAY INCREASES. >>KEVIN BECKNER: NO, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, AND I APPRECIATE THAT. I JUST KNOW AT THIS TIME PERCEPTION IS REALITY, AND AS A BOARD MEMBER -- BECAUSE WHEN PEOPLE -- WHEN PEOPLE HAVE ISSUES ABOUT THIS, THEY DON'T SAY, WELL, THE ADMINISTRATOR DID THIS OR THE ADMINISTRATOR DID THAT, EXCEPT FOR MAYBE THE PRESS. THEY ALWAYS SAY, WHAT ARE YOU GUYS THINKING ABOUT? YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CUTTING JOBS, CUTTING SERVICES, AND THEN YOU'RE GIVING INCREASES. THE ONLY THING I WOULD ASK, BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S CONSOLIDATIONS, AND I'M GLAD THAT YOU GAVE THE EXPLANATION ABOUT WHERE YOU CREATED EFFICIENCIES AND THAT THIS WAS A SMALL INCREASE SO YOU COULD -- SO YOU COULD CREATE THOSE EFFICIENCIES. THAT'S -- FOR ME, THAT'S A -- THAT EXPLANATION IS FINE, BUT I WOULD JUST APPRECIATE IN THE FUTURE THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO BE HAVING DIFFERENT PEOPLE THAT ARE BEING PROMOTED AND PAY RAISES, IF YOU COULD GIVE US -- JUST FOR RIGHT NOW LET US KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THEM AND THE JUSTIFICATION SO THAT WE CAN EXPLAIN TO OUR CONSTITUENTS WHAT'S GOING ON SO IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING OUT OF BOTH SIDES OF OUR MOUTHS WHERE WE'RE SAYING WE'RE CUTTING, BUT ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW WHAT, THE TOP PEOPLE ARE GETTING PAY RAISES. IT'S JUST PERCEPTION IS REALITY RIGHT NOW. >>PAT BEAN: COMMISSIONERS, LET ME ALSO BE REAL CLEAR SO THE PUBLIC DOESN'T THING I JUST DID THIS YESTERDAY OR LAST WEEK. THIS WAS LASTS FALL, IN OCTOBER-NOVEMBER TIME FRAME. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT, THANK YOU. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: IT WAS NOVEMBER 6th, 2008, AND IN THAT PRESENTATION WE HAD A NICE FLOW CHART. I WENT BACK THROUGH EVERYTHING, AND I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING THAT TALKED -- IT TALKED ABOUT RECLASS, BUT AS I CAN REMEMBER, AND I WENT THROUGH THE -- THE MINUTES, IT DIDN'T OUTLINE WHAT THAT PAY WAS GOING TO BE OTHER THAN IT SAID THERE WAS NO FISCAL -- ON THE COVER SHEET, THERE WAS NO COST OF REORGANIZATION. THE COST IS COVERED WITHIN THE BUDGET OF THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. >>PAT BEAN: THAT'S CORRECT. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: SO -- YEAH. AND THAT'S WHERE -- BECAUSE -- AND THIS COMES THROUGH OUR CIVIL SERVICE. >>PAT BEAN: NO, THIS DOES NOT COME THROUGH OUR CIVIL SERVICE. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: YOU MENTIONED CIVIL SERVICE EARLIER. >>PAT BEAN: NOT IN REGARD TO THIS. I SAID THERE ARE CIVIL SERVICE POSITIONS THAT ARE CONTROLLED BY MR. GARDNER'S OFFICE. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: GOT IT. >>PAT BEAN: THE UNCLASSIFIED POSITIONS ARE NOT CONTROLLED BY HIM FOR ANY OF THE ORGANIZATIONS OF COUNTY GOVERNMENT. >>AL HIGGINBOTHAM: OKAY. I JUST MISUNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU SAID THERE, AND I THOUGHT MAYBE THERE WAS SOMETHING -- I MISSED SOMETHING ALONG THE WAY. BUT IT IS THE REALITY, AND I WAS AT TWO GROUPS THIS MORNING. I TELL YOU, I GOT BLISTERED BY IT. JUST SO YOU KNOW WHAT WE'RE -- THE ELECTED BOARD IS GETTING HERE AND SO YOUR STAFF KNOWS, ONE ANALOGY WAS DRAWN THAT SAYS YOU GUYS -- IT WASN'T YOU, YOU GUYS, THE COMMISSIONERS, YOU LOOK LIKE THESE AUTO EXECUTIVES WHO FLEW IN ON YOUR FANCY JETS TO WASHINGTON TO ASK FOR MORE MONEY, SO, I MEAN, THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS. THEN ANOTHER ONE SAID -- AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE I HADN'T SEEN THE ARTICLE. AND THE OTHER ONE SAID, MS. BEAN'S LOWEST-PAID ASSISTANT MAKES MORE THAN THE GOVERNOR. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE GOVERNOR MAKES AND I DON'T KNOW WHO YOUR LOWEST-PAID ASSISTANT IS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS, BUT I WAS CAUGHT -- I WAS SHOCKED. I MEAN, NOT -- I WAS SHOCKED BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE STORY WAS, BUT I KNOW THERE'S VALUE TO PEOPLE, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT IS SENSITIVE, BUT THE PERCEPTION IS SUCH -- IF WE COME BACK WITH ANOTHER REORG, PLEASE GET IT SPELLED OUT CLEARLY FOR US BECAUSE I THINK THAT WAS PART OF YOUR MESSAGE, BUT THE PUBLIC WAS REALLY FUMING, AND I CAUGHT IT TWICE TODAY IN PUBLIC APPEARANCES. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: LASTLY, JUST A QUESTION, MS. BEAN. THE PEOPLE THAT AREN'T COVERED BY MR. GARDNER IN CIVIL SERVICE, NO MATTER WHAT THEY DECIDE TO TAKE ON, WHY DON'T WE TRY TO DO LIKE THE REST OF I GUESS CORPORATE AMERICA AND EVERYBODY ELSE THAT'S TIGHTENING THEIR BELT. IF THEY'RE NOT COVERED BY CIVIL SERVICE, WHICH MANDATES THAT THEY GET THE PAY AT THAT JOB LEVEL OR THE PROMOTION BE, WHY DON'T WITH THE NONCIVIL SERVICE CLASSIFIED PEOPLE, WELL, THEY CAN ACCEPT THE PROMOTION IF THEY WILL OR MAY, BUT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE COUNTYWIDE FREEZES ACROSS THE BOARD, EXCEPT MAYBE FOR A COST OF LIVING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, UNTIL WE GET IN BETTER ECONOMIC TIMES. >>PAT BEAN: WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE COST OF LIVING EITHER. >>KEVIN WHITE: WELL, I MEAN, THAT'S FINE, BUT WHY DON'T WE LOOK AT DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT WAY WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT SEEMING ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS WHO WE GIVE RAISES TO, WHY WE GIVE THEM RAISES, AND IF THEY'RE CIVIL SERVICE, IT'S CLEAR CUT, IT'S LAW, THAT'S WHY WE DID IT, AND THAT'S THE END OF THAT STORY. IF IT'S NOT, IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE PERCEIVED AS ARBITRARY OR CRONYISM OR THAT'S -- THAT'S PAT BEAN'S DO BOY OR DO GIRL AND THAT'S -- THAT'S HER FRIEND AND THAT'S WHY WE PROMOTED THEM -- I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT THE E-MAILS ARE SAYING. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT'S WHAT IT IS. >>PAT BEAN: I KNOW, AND I THINK THAT'S SOMEWHAT OFFENSIVE. >>KEVIN WHITE: AS WELL DO I, BUT -- AND I CONSIDER EVERYTHING OFFENSIVE THAT I GET ON THE E-MAILS ALWAYS PERTAINING TO ME AS WELL, BUT I'M SAYING -- BUT IT'S -- YOU KNOW, PERCEPTION IS REALITY, AND YOU HAVE TO REALIZE AT TOUGH TIMES WHEN WE HAVE PEOPLE IN THESE 26 FLOORS AND THE COMMUNITY PACKING THEIR BAG, GOING HOME AND PACKING BOXES TO LEAVE THEIR OFFICES -- I KNOW IT'S HARD FOR YOU, IT'S HARD FOR US, IT'S HARD FOR OUR ENTIRE COMMUNITY, BUT MAYBE THAT'S AN OPTION THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT AS WELL. >>PAT BEAN: WELL, I'M LAYING OFF OUT OF THE UNCLASSIFIED RANKS A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF FOLKS THIS ROUND AS WELL. I'M LAYING OFF OVER 40-SOME AT THIS MOMENT THAT I KNOW OF, AND THERE WILL BE FURTHER LAYOFFS IN THE UNCLASSIFIED RANKS. I DO NEED TO TELL YOU, COMMISSIONER, THAT EVEN FOR THE UNCLASSIFIED, TO PREVENT SOMEBODY JUST ARBITRARILY PROMOTING SOMEBODY AND TO PREVENT THEM GIVING MORE THAN IS APPROPRIATE, THERE IS A -- AN ESTABLISHED POLICY THAT IS GOVERNED BY THE HR DEPARTMENT -- WHERE'S GEORGE? BACK THERE. HE'S THE ONE THAT KEEPS THAT POLICY, AND HE CHECKS EVERY ONE OF THE PAPERS WHERE IT GOES THROUGH HR FOR APPROVAL AND SUBMISSION FOR -- INTO THE SYSTEM. THERE IS A POLICY THAT CONTROLS ALL OF THAT, AND IT IS CHECKED BY MR. WILLIAMS AND HIS STAFF BEFORE ANYTHING LIKE THAT IS PROCESSED FOR PAYMENT. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER WHITE -- OR COMMISSIONER SHARPE, I'M SORRY. >>MARK SHARPE: WELL, I THANK THE COMMISSIONER FOR I THINK THE TACTFUL WAY YOU BROUGHT IT UP AND THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU ASKED. IT -- BUT IT IS MY SENSE THAT -- AND I WRESTLED WITH THIS AT LENGTH BECAUSE YOU'VE PROVIDED YOUR EXPLANATION, AND I UNDERSTAND THE TECHNICAL MERITS FOR WHY AS AN -- YOU KNOW, WITH MORE RESPONSIBILITIES AND GOING TO A NEW PAY GRADE THAT THEY WOULD RECEIVE MORE PAY, AND I ALSO WANT TO SAY THAT THE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE BEING DISCUSSED, EACH OF THEM ARE -- ARE HARDWORKING INDIVIDUALS, AND I -- AND I THINK THAT THEY'RE GOOD PUBLIC SERVANTS, SO LET'S TAKE THE PERSONALITIES OUT OF THIS AND JUST TALK ABOUT THE POLICY ITSELF. I DON'T THINK IN A TIME LIKE THIS WE CAN AFFORD PAY RAISES FOR ANYONE. I REALLY DON'T BELIEVE WE CAN -- AND I'LL TELL YOU, I'VE BEEN IN SITUATIONS MYSELF WHERE WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO TAKE ON ADDITIONAL RESPONSIBILITIES, AND THERE WERE NO PAY RAISES BECAUSE IT WAS JUST PART OF THE SERVICE YOU WERE IN AND BECAUSE WE'RE HERE TO SERVE A CAUSE, AND THAT CAUSE IS GREATER THAN OURSELVES AND IS GREATER THAN OUR -- BUT WE'RE NOT HERE FOR THE PAY, AND SO I -- I REALLY THINK THAT WE NEED TO BE VERY CAUTIOUS IN TIMES WHEN WE ARE PACKING THE ROOMS WITH INDIVIDUALS COMING HERE BEGGING THAT WE NOT LET GO AN INDIVIDUAL WHO'S A COACH THAT -- WHEN WE ASK PEOPLE TO TAKE ON MORE RESPONSIBILITIES -- I DON'T KNOW IF COMMISSIONER WHITE WAS GOING IN THAT DIRECTION, BUT I THINK THAT WE ASK THEM TO TAKE ON RESPONSIBILITIES AND WE HOPE THAT THEY'LL DO IT WITH -- WITH A SPIRIT WITH WHICH IT WAS REQUESTED AND NOT EXPECT ADDITIONAL PAY, AND WHEN WE GET OUT OF THIS MESS AND WE FIND OURSELVES COMING OUT, THEN AT THAT TIME WE CAN DISCUSS ADDITIONAL PAY, BUT I PERSONALLY HAVE A HARD TIME WITH THAT BECAUSE AS THE PAY INCREASES, ALSO -- I MEAN, WHAT IS THE IMPACT ON THE ENTITLEMENTS WHEN THEY RETIRE? >>PAT BEAN: WELL, IF PAY INCREASES, THEY POTENTIALLY EARN MORE AT THE TIME OF RETIREMENT. >>MARK SHARPE: AND I DON'T WANT TO GO OFF INTO A WHOLE NEW TANGENT, BUT I DO BELIEVE AS WELL THE REASON CALIFORNIA IS IN THE STATE IT'S IN, THE REASON WE'RE LOOKING AT OURSELVES DRIVING INTO THE BRINK IS WE CAN NO LONGER -- AND THIS IS JUST GOVERNMENTS IN GENERAL -- AFFORD LIFETIME RETIREMENT PAYMENTS, I MEAN, AND -- AND VERY WELL -- VERY GOOD RETIREMENT, AND SO WE NEED TO -- I MEAN, AS WE PROGRESS, FOR THOSE WHO CAME IN, WHO UNDERSTOOD THE AGREEMENT -- AND I THINK WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION AND RESPONSIBILITY TO LIVE UP TO THAT, BUT AS WE LOOK OUT INTO THE FUTURE, I THINK WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAUTIOUS AND VERY JUDICIOUS, SO I WOULD URGE THAT WE NOT IN THESE TIMES -- I WANT TO KNOW BEFORE WE START ISSUING UP PAY RAISES. >>PAT BEAN: IS THAT FOR CLASSIFIED EMPLOYEES AS WELL? >>MARK SHARPE: YES, MA'AM, THAT'S FOR ANYTHING. >>PAT BEAN: SO NO PROMOTIONS -- >>MARK SHARPE: I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW. I WOULD LIKE TO JUST KNOW. >>PAT BEAN: OKAY. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER NORMAN. >>JIM NORMAN: THE ONLY THING I -- YOU KNOW, THIS IS A PRETTY WIDE BRUSH WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, FOLKS. AND LET ME JUST TELL YOU THIS. THIS ALSO GOES INTO LAW ENFORCEMENT AND ALSO GOES INTO FIRE. LET ME JUST SAY THIS. WHEN A -- IF A GUY'S ON THE FRONT LINE OR GIRL'S ON THE FRONT LINE OUT THERE AND THEY GET TO BE MADE SERGEANT OR SOMETHING, THEY'RE GOING TO GET A PAY INCREASE. YOU KNOW -- >>MARK SHARPE: [INAUDIBLE] WELL, LISTEN, ABSOLUTELY, LAW ENFORCEMENT, I UNDERSTAND. >>JIM NORMAN: WELL, I'M JUST SAYING -- THOSE PEOPLE -- SOMEBODY WHO'S PUT 20 YEARS IN THE FIELD AND THEY GET THAT, I DON'T -- YOU KNOW, I DON'T -- I'M NOT AGAINST THAT INVESTMENT THEY'VE MADE AND TO BE MOVED UP AND -- IT'S JUST A WIDE BRUSH WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE. IF YOU WANT TO, LIKE, FREEZE A CERTAIN SEGMENT OR GET THAT KIND OF STUFF -- BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 10,000 EMPLOYEES HERE, AND THAT -- YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LEAVE, THEY GET PROMOTIONS, AND I -- YOU KNOW, AND -- YOU KNOW, I WAS SITTING HERE LOOKING AT THE LIST THAT COMMISSIONER WHITE PASSED OUT, AND THERE'S 60 FIREFIGHTERS ON HERE. ASKING 60 FIREFIGHTERS OF OUR TOP LEADERS TO LEAVE, I'D HAVE ISSUE WITH THAT. I MEAN, THERE'S -- THERE'S -- THERE'S SOME VALUE IN A 20-, 25-YEAR LEADERSHIP OF A FIREFIGHTER THAT I DON'T WANT TO SEE HIM GO PACKING. I MEAN, SO YOU JUST CAN'T BRUSH IT WITH THAT BIG OF A BRUSH, I DON'T THINK. I KNOW EXACTLY THE ISSUE YOU WANT. I MEAN, THE ISSUE IS IT'S COMMON SENSE, WE SHOULDN'T BE FREELANCING, YOU KNOW. WE'RE IN TOUGH TIMES. WE SHOULDN'T BE FREELANCING, AND THERE SHOULD BE COMMON SENSE APPLIED TO IT. THERE'S GREAT LEADERSHIP WITHIN THIS ORGANIZATION, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SPECIAL CATEGORIES, AND I DON'T WANT TO STOP OUR FIRE, OUR POLICE, AND ALL THESE KIND OF THINGS AND BEING GUN SHY OF BEING ABLE TO BE PROMOTED. YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE -- THOSE ARE -- THOSE ARE MEN AND WOMEN OUT THERE THAT I REALLY VALUE AND DON'T -- I DON'T WANT OUR DISCUSSION TODAY TO ALL OF A SUDDEN PUT A CHILL ON QUALITY PEOPLE GETTING -- AND THAT GOES IN OUR ORGANIZATION TOO. WE'VE PROBABLY GOT YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN THAT ARE TRYING TO MOVE UP, AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE -- IF THERE IS MOVEMENTS AND THERE ARE CATEGORIES THAT CHANGE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE IN THEIR CAREERS, AND WE SHOULDN'T PUT A CHILL ON, YOU KNOW -- YES -- YOU KNOW, IN THIS KIND OF SITUATION, I MEAN -- WHAT I HEARD TOO WAS THERE WAS $400,000 SAVED HERE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE 100,000 SPENT. THERE WAS 400,000 SAVED. BUT I'M JUST SAYING THIS -- IT'S STICKER SHOCK A LOT OF TIMES TO SAY THIS IS THIS, BUT I'M SITTING HERE THINKING WITHOUT ERIC JOHNSON, WITHOUT MIKE MERRILL, IF THEY WALKED AWAY TODAY BECAUSE OF OUR COMMENTS AND WE TRIED TO FULFILL AN ORGANIZATION AND A BUDGET FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS, WE'D LOOK PRETTY DARN FOOLISH. >>PAT BEAN: YES, WE WOULD. >>JIM NORMAN: BECAUSE WE'RE LEANING ON THEIR GUIDANCE, WE'RE LEANING -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN A COMPETITIVE FIELD WITH PEOPLE LIKE THIS, YOU KNOW. THEY'RE GOOD PEOPLE. MERRILL AND JOHNSON, THEY'RE GOOD PEOPLE, AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THAT'S NOT FELT BY EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD, BUT WE'RE IN A COMPETITIVE MARKET TO KEEP THEM, AND IF THEY TOOK ON FIVE MORE ORGANIZATIONS, IT'S COMMON SENSE TO ME THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET SOMETHING. IF THEY'RE GOING TO SPEND AN ADDITIONAL TEN HOURS A WEEK DOING THIS JOB, DOING THE MAN HOURS THAT THEY'RE DOING, THERE HAS TO BE COMMON SENSE APPLIED TO EVERY ACTION WE TAKE, AND THERE'S SOME COMMON SENSE TO REWARDING PEOPLE THAT ARE MOVING UP, GETTING PROMOTED. WHY DIDN'T YOU RUN FOR CITY COUNCIL THEN, YOU KNOW? I MEAN, THERE'S A $40,000 DIFFERENCE IN JOB THERE, FOLKS. COMMISSIONER WHITE, WHY DIDN'T YOU RUN THERE AND STAY THERE? I MEAN, THERE'S A $40,000 DIFFERENCE DEAL THERE. >>KEVIN WHITE: I DIDN'T LIKE IT. [LAUGHTER] >>JIM NORMAN: AND I DIDN'T WANT TO -- MY POINT IS -- [LAUGHTER] -- EVERY CATEGORY IN GOVERNMENT -- WHY AREN'T, YOU KNOW, GOVERNOR? I MEAN, THERE'S A DIFFERENT CATEGORY OF PAY THERE. EVERY ELECTED OFFICIAL IN THE STATE ISN'T MAKING THE SAME EXACT THING. I MEAN, THERE'S DIFFERENT RESPONSIBILITIES AND THERE'S DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS IN EVERY JOB YOU FILL, AND IT'S GAUGED THAT WAY, AND YOU CAN'T JUST BEAT UP A COUPLE OF EMPLOYEES TO MAKE A GOOD HEADLINE. >>KEVIN WHITE: COMMISSIONER NORMAN -- >>KEN HAGAN: HOLD ON. AND PERHAPS WE NEED TO AGENDA THIS FOR A BROAD-BASED POLICY DISCUSSION. I MEAN, I DON'T WANT TO STAY HERE UNTIL 6:00 DISCUSSING SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT ON THE AGENDA, SO A COUPLE MORE COMMENTS, AND THEN WE NEED TO MOVE ON. >>KEVIN WHITE: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER BECKNER WAS NEXT. >>KEVIN WHITE: OH, I'M SORRY. >>KEVIN BECKNER: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I WANT TO REEMPHASIZE THAT I VALUE ALL THOSE EMPLOYEES THAT WERE MENTIONED. I -- YOU KNOW, I -- I ABSOLUTELY HAVE NO BEEFS WITH THEM. I THINK THEY'VE BEEN -- PROVIDED GOOD SERVICE. I THINK THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS IS NOT SO MUCH THE VALUE THAT THEY BRING AND WHAT WE'RE PAYING THEM FOR THE VALUE. THE QUESTION IS IS JUST THE JUSTIFICATION AND THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION, AND THEN ALSO, WE HAVE TO ANSWER TO OUR OTHER EMPLOYEES WHO MIGHT NOT KNOW THE WHOLE STORY OF HOW YOU CREATED EFFICIENCIES AND NEEDED TO CONSOLIDATE AND MOVE UP PEOPLE IN PAY CLASSES. IT'S JUST THE WAY THAT THE STORY CAME OUT AND THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION, AND WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT AS WE'RE DOING THIS THAT WE PROVIDE CLARIFICATION AND JUSTIFICATION OF IF WE'RE GIVING PAY RAISES, WHY ARE WE GIVING A PAY RAISE, AND IF WE HAVE TO SPEND $100,000 TO SAVE $400,000 BECAUSE WE'RE CONSOLIDATING, MAYBE IT MAKES SENSE, BUT I THINK THE WHOLE THING IS THE COMMUNICATIONS AND HOW WE COMMUNICATE THAT. SO AGAIN, I JUST WANT TO STRESS THAT IT'S NOT ABOUT -- AND I'M NOT CRITICIZING THE QUALITY OF WORK AND WHETHER -- WHO DESERVES WHAT MONEY. AGAIN, IT'S REALLY AT THE TIME THAT WE'RE IN, WHEN WE'RE LAYING OFF PEOPLE, WE'RE CUTTING SALARIES, YOU KNOW, OUR EMPLOYEES ARE ASKED TO DO MORE THAT MAY -- THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE GETTING PAY RAISES. WE JUST NEED TO BE ABLE TO JUSTIFY THEM OR AT LEAST PROVIDE AN EXPLANATION OF OUR ACTIONS THAT WE'RE DOING. WE MUST BE ACCOUNTABLE TO OUR EMPLOYEES AND TO THE PUBLIC. >>KEN HAGAN: COMMISSIONER WHITE. >>KEVIN WHITE: BE REAL BRIEF, MR. CHAIRMAN. COMMISSIONER NORMAN, I GREATLY APPRECIATE AND SOMEWHAT AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENTS, BUT I WASN'T LOOKING AT ANY PARTICULAR DEPARTMENT, ANY PARTICULAR AGENCY, I WAS JUST LOOKING AT TIME, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHERE CAN WE FIND MONEY, WHAT CAN WE DO, AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S MANDATED. THIS IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS AN INCENTIVE FOR 30- YEAR-PLUS EMPLOYEES IS WHAT I -- WHERE I WAS GOING WITH IT, AND LIKE YOU SAID, WELL, WHY DID YOU LEAVE CITY COUNCIL, WHY WOULD ANYBODY LEAVE HERE? WHY ARE YOU LEAVING HERE? BECAUSE THERE'S TERM LIMITS. EXACTLY. THERE'S TERM LIMITS. IT'S TIME FOR NEW BLOOD TO COME ON THE BOARD. IT'S TIME FOR NEW, INNOVATIVE IDEAS, AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TERM LIMITS IN POLITICS, AND THAT'S MAYBE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO -- >>JIM NORMAN: THEY WEREN'T HIRED UNDER THAT, THOUGH. >>KEVIN WHITE: I UNDERSTAND. SAME CONCEPT, BUT THERE'S TIMES, AND THERE'S CERTAIN TIMES THAT WE NEED TO CREATE NEW VACANCIES AND NEW POSITIONS TO GET NEW BLOOD, NEW INNOVATIVE IDEAS AND MORE PRODUCTIVITY FLOWING THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS, SO WE'RE LOOKING FOR MONEY, AND WE'RE ALL CHARGED WITH TRYING TO FIND NEW AND INNOVATIVE IDEAS IN THESE TOUGH ECONOMIC TIMES, AND UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, WE ALL HAVE TO LOOK UNDER EVERY ROCK. >>KEN HAGAN: OKAY. I WANT TO THANK COMMISSIONER BECKNER FOR BRINGING THIS ISSUE UP, SOMETHING THAT NEEDED TO BE DISCUSSED, AND OUR NEXT WORKSHOP IS NEXT THURSDAY, JUNE 18th, AT 1:30, AND WE'RE ADJOURNED. 1